Good day to all. Very glad to join the conversation. I think I have read every post for the last so many years and have learned much.

Well.....I have been a rifle man for hunting for years....currently with a 45-70 and 30-30 ( I know....old fashion...but fun).

I use to have a 686 years ago...but sold it. So I bought this year a Ruger gp100 4.2". I bought 4 different offering from Underwood......2 different 158gr, a 140 penetrator and a 180 GC hard cast. I also had Grizzly 180. I used a bench at my shooting club with a sand bag, single action. Wow......beyond horrible groups. The recoil was nothing for 357 even though these rounds are gussied up by Underwood to 1500 fps. But the patterns for all of them were nothing short of open choke shotgun. These were shot at 50 yds. The only one that gave a fair pattern was the Grizzly 180 hardcast...I noted it was a bit slower by feel than the 180 Underwood. I shot a 10 shot group of 8 inches. I've read so much about the 1" and 2" and 3" groups others have had....and success of others at 100 yards too. I went through 5 boxes of ammo slowly and carefully. No flinch as there is so little kick with the heavy gun and 357 ammo.

Then I did a search and found some of the old articles that talked about some gp100 accuracy problems....and I said...oh %^$$^%^. Anyways......I didn't want to use 38's....and as it was, I had a good scrub out when I got home.

So....do I have one of those dreaded ^&%^%% or is this maybe the foolishness of buying gussied ammo to start paterning with....or what?

Your deep thoughts and welcome are appreciated.

Are you resting your barrel on your sand bags? If so, that could account for your wayward groups.

My 4" GP shoots great at 25 yards and my 6" GP shoots exceptionally well at 100 when I do things right.

Thank you for the response Zee. Your shooting is just beautiful. I understand that I am just using factory fodder....and I avoided resting the barrel the best I could on the bag placing the point of rest near the trigger.

I was shocked by the horrendous outcome....for controlled single action........I should add.......I'm a hunter....so I wanted to be able to go up the mountain with 'only' a sidearm at times and count on accurate open site shooting to 50 yards. So I have 8" at 50 yards at best.......hmmmmmmm

If you are resting on or just in front of the trigger, then there is definitely something else going on. Be it ammo or technique.

Try different ammo or several. If the issue continues and you know it's not the nut behind the trigger..........there may be something with the gun.

Maybe try having a friend you know to be a good shooter give it a try.

Just start checking off boxes until you know for sure it is the gun.

When I'm shooting smaller revolvers off the bench I use a rear bag for a rifle turned over so I have a smaller area of the bag on top. I rest the front of the trigger gaurd on top and press my buckles into the bag. If there is a mechanical issue causing groups that large a thorough inspection should show a problem. If you don't see anything wrong like jacket shavings from timing issues or a bad crown keep practicing. It doesn't take much sight misalignment to make patterns instead of groups at 50 yards. If you're just getting into handguns I wouldn't call that terrible shooting

Welcome to HHM. So am I correct that it seems you haven't shot a handgun in some time? Do you happen to know an experienced handgunner who might be able to confirm your findings? Revolvers tend to be grip sensitive, and consistancy of the grip as well as trigger control are paramount to accuracy. I have a 6" GP that is over 2 decades old that can consistantly shoot handloads around 2" @ 50 with but my forearms rested on a bag, not the gun. The fact that all the ammo you tried shot so poorly makes me wonder. Perhaps you have a lemon of a gun, or perhaps a little more time on the trigger is in order. Please don't take offense, just seeking answers.

Eric and s4......thanks for the thoughts....I use to do a lot of on the line practice years ago with Florida DOC....technique does get rusty.....but I'm not as concerned with that at this juncture of my experience.

I will share one other noted concern....now that I'm getting older...being myopic, wearing my glasses, the target is clear and the front site is somewhat squishy....can't have both with this visual issue.....however.....I could still have a clear enough picture of the front site/rear site and target for a controlled shot.

I'm wondering.....maybe this is one of those...oh oh 100's...or maybe....firing only gussied loads put my gun at a disadvantage that a slower magnum load may not have revealed?

I also have a GP100 with a six inch barrel. Last year I noticed that my groups had opened up at 50 yards. I really tried to figure out what I was doing wrong and finally decided that I was letting the butt of my grip rest on the shooting bench.

When I made sure I had some part of my hand between the butt and the bench my groups got much better.

At 61 my eyes are not what they once were so I have either a low power scope or a red dot on all my hunting handguns now.

Welcome to the exasperating world of trying to shoot small groups at 50 yds with a short barreled open sighted handgun. CONSISTANCY IS EVERYTHING. Hand position,grip pressure sight alignment, trigger control, gun posision on the bag all have to be spot on EVERY SHOT. I would say start closer at first, 15 to 25 yds to learn the gun ,gain confidance and experience,then move out. No offense meant but,small groups at 50 come hard ,with lots of practice and time behind the trigger.
I don't think my guns have ever missed.
I on the other hand have, several times!

Thanks Junebug and Redhawk

I also wish that the standard gp100 had a thinner finer front site.....I did paint mine fluorescent nail polish green to help....and of course, the 4.2 barrel can't mount optics....yoy.

http://jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPA-RR

s4......how does that work and does anyone use it on the forum or have photos on a 4.2 gp? I didn't know about an option...tell me more. thanks

Weigand does make a mount for the 4" GP 100's if you decide to go that route.


http://www.jackweigand.com/Ruger-GP100-Scope-Mounts-No-Drill.html

Unfortunately those don't fit the NEW 4.2" models, like the OP has. He could D%T a Weigatinny tho.

That mount fits the JPoint reflex sight. There are also adaptors that will work with Docter and others like that. I think I may have one of the JPoint bases lying around here somewhere.

I stand corrected.

What's the difference, S4? I'm curious now.

The front of the no drill Weigand attaches where the front sight is on the GP's and I'd expect that those .2" on the new model are .2" too much. I've not seen the 4.2" guns so not sure if the front sight may be different than the 4"ers.

Says it plain as day right there on Jack's site ... I shoulda noticed ... Wasn't aware of the barrel change. Thanks, S4!

Welcome Bosshawg,

You will get a lot of good advice here.

I side with junebug. Consistency.

Try this next. 158gr 357 magnums. Standing. Target at 7 yards. Feet shoulder width apart, staggered. Weight forward. Firm hand shake grip with strong hand. Interlock thumb of support hand. Strong grip with support hand. Arms slightly bent, but not loose and flimsy. Push / pull, to lock the gun in the hands. Raise gun to your line of sight. Check- weight slightly forward- good. Support hand, thumb the hammer back. Focus on the front sight. Front sight is centered in the blurry rear sight. Front sight is centered over blurry target. Front sight is clear. Check your NPA (Natural Point of Aim), close your eyes. Open your eyes. If front sight has moved off center of the target, adjust your body. Don't muscle the gun. Front sight centered. Finger on trigger. Front sight clear. Pause your breath. Squeeze the trigger straight back. Bang. Follow through. Keep gun on target. See the impact of the round resting on your front sight. Good job. Bullseye.

These are just the basics. You already know them. Now remind your body that it does too. Your confidence in the gun has been lost. Take it back. Your gun is fine and it won't fail you.

Most of all. Enjoy the time with your gun. If you make a bad shot, shake it off. Focus on the next shot. You got this.

Makes me wonder if I should shoot without my glasses.... Then the front site will be clear and the target blurry!

Thanks to each of you for your thoughts and welcome

bosshawg, I made that mistake a couple of years ago. It worked well on the range with a white target in good light but when I tried it on a deer in the field in dim light I could not see the deer.

You may want to try a scope of some kind. It has worked for me and now I enjoy my handguns even more. It is much more fun when you can see your sight and your target clearly.

Defiantly start closer. If it still doesn't group I know someone who can fix it

If I wanted to put a scope on it.... Can this model be drilled and tapped


If so.....what base would fit and which very small scope would you buy.



And has anyone done it and have photos


Because if this is not solveable... Maybe it's time to add a 44m sbh!!!

Weigand or egw for the base

If this is your only hunting handgun then I vote to buy a SBH.

Pistol shooting is a quickly vanishing skill if not practiced on a regular bases. Rifle shooting is not so bad. There are as many things we can do wrong, as do right.That is why we say start close where you are not so worried about group size and can consentrate on the important basics. Grip,sight alignment,breathing, trigger control.When you can stack them all at 15 yds move back 10yds and do it again then 10 more and repeat. Muscle memory and confidance will build with practice. Without knowing your level of experience we are just making educated guesses,so we start with the basics. When I have laid off shooting for awhile, I still start close and work out to get my grip and trigger control dialed in .Nothing steps on my ego
worse than having a gun I know will shoot, then letting the gun down due to range rust. Not trying to offend ,just help.

Well stated, junebug!

I have a 6" GP that shoots vell well. I have a 2x Nikon on top.

bosshawg,

Weigand scope base and Burris Fast Fire red dot sight.

Picture borrowed from the web.

If a scope is your preference, then a Leupold 2x pistol scope would fit the bill.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1362241334/leupold-fx-ii-pistol-scope-2x-20mm-duplex-reticle

Picture borrowed from web.

So....thanks Bras

If that's a 4.2"..... Then it must reflect d&t.

I wrote Jack Weigand today and he kindly let me know that there are still no active answers for the 4.2 aside from d&t.

....maybe I should consider it with an ultradot30







[qu







ote=BRASF0311]bosshawg,

Weigand scope base and Burris Fast Fire red dot sight.

Picture borrowed from the web.

If a scope is your preference, then a Leupold 2x pistol scope would fit the bill.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1362241334/leupold-fx-ii-pistol-scope-2x-20mm-duplex-reticle

Picture borrowed from web. [/quote]

You can put a little reflex sight on it as is, with the JPoint base that replaces the rear sight and not have to D&T the topstrap. Would make for a nice compact package. Would be easier to find a holster as well.

Thanks s4

Do the jpoint bases support any Weaver or piccatinny supported optic...or do you need to buy a jpoint optic only for the mount?

As far as I know JPoint only fits Jpoint.

JPoint offers an adaptor that will allow mounting a Docter sight to their base:

http://jprifles.com/buy.php?item=ARR-JP/DR

So I went back to the range today.....took 2 different ammo plus the grizzly 180.....I picked up the Fed Amer Eagle 158 semi jacketed soft point and Hornady custom hp

What I learned

1. The Hornady was a disaster...shotgun like the other day with the Underwood
2. The SJSP Fed was the best...the group shrunk to 7-8 inches...wow...open site, 50 yards
3. The Grizzly 180 did almost as well and was predictable
4. I found I was better without my glasses so I could see the front site clearer and the target a little blurry
5. When the gun started getting dirty...the groups on all ammo opened up largely


What I have resolved....

1. I found 2 ammo that work in this gun....one is hardcast and one is softpoint.....but both are exposed lead with very little copper/jacket or hp. It seems my gun wants to touch lead to stabilize.
2. I think I can live with this gun and may D&T it and put a small low power scope on for these old eyes for hunting with quick release yada yada
3. I will watch the 44m market for a SBH deal in the future for kicks
4. Bring cleaning solution and brush when targeting!


Thanks everyone for the great help. I really enjoyed all of your feedback and expertise.

Well.......I cleaned the gun with copper cleaner, then bore cleaner/polish, then hoppes and then carb cleaner spray. I went back again to the gun club range. I took 4 different factory fodder with me....200 and 180 grain Grizzly, 158 JSP Fed AE and Hornady 158 XTP.

I used a sandbag at bench with the butt of the grip only approaching the bag with my left hand under (2 hand grip). I am waiting on a FO HiViz but currently am utilizing the factory front sight with florescent green nail polish.

I spent extra time on not rushing any shot, trigger pull yada yada. I started with the Hornady....and ...what can I say...last time it was shotgun...this day it was about my best group around 6" at 50 yds. The 180 did well too. But, the factory round I was most excited about was the 200 grain Grizzly. It gave a slightly tighter group than the 180 and hit with such authority. I would be comfortable taking it hunting up to 50 yds....even though my very old eyes shoot best when I take my distance glasses off and have sharp vision on the sights and not so great on the target.

I did notice the little pin that holds the front of the rear sight trying to walk itself out...it pushed back in easily with the end of an empty shell....anyone else see that happen?

I did brass brush with Hoppes and even bore scrub after every so many shots...it seems to make a sizeable difference in my gun....maybe I can't see the leading....or maybe it's just in my head!

You might wanna push that pin out about halfway and then put a little bend in it and tap it back in. That should give enough tension to keep it in place.

Keep at it and you'll have that gun shooting cloverleafs before long ;-)

I have been watching this thread for a while as I dread the day that I can't shoot irons on handguns accurately. That is the first thought that crosses my mind if groups aren't tight or I miss something I think I should have bagged. The suggestions so far have been very good. If I have a problem I revert to basics and go from there. Getting another good shooter to shoot the gun is a great suggestion. Short of that getting a good shoot to critique your set up, technique, choice of target is a great way to confirm the question of "Is it the arrow or the archer?" I have a good friend I introduced to IPSC in the 80's that is still deeply addicted. I don't compete any more but my friend and I still work together on shooting problems and help each other whenever a problem arises. We also never miss a chance to inject sarcasm into the conversation!! But all in good fun ofcourse! The size and shape of the target as well as how it contrasts with background and the direction/angle of sunlight or lack of it will have an effect on sight picture. "Peaking" at the target is always a deal breaker. Being able to focus on the front sight is paramount. After that the ability to let the sub conscious center the sight on the target is next. This is where a well defined target come into play so you get a consistent relationship time after time. I like to start at 25yds and gradually increase distance while focusing on the basics of grip,trigger control,breath etc and then increase distance from there. The idea is to identify the problem so you can fix it without chasing multiple problems that lead to frustration. Hunting situations don't offer perfection conditions and that is where the challenge comes in. When something shows up with hair on it there is no time to have doubts in your ability or your equipment. Confidence built on the range will bring home the bacon!

Shoot straight and often!

Thank you S4 and FA

All your pointers are deeply appreciated.

Just received my HiViz in the mail today...should help some...

thanks