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New Gun for me too! #169162 02/23/2016 4:58 AM
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karl Offline OP
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Was out with some friends and stopped at a gun shop that would let you test fire used guns for a small fee. A friends wife wanted to shoot a Blackhawk (44 mag) that she had them set aside the day before. I asked about trying a 15" Encore in 45-70 that they had on the shelf (the only SP that I saw), mostly just so I could say I had shot a 45-70.
I have to say the encore fit like a glove and balance was great. After putting 4 shots in one small ragged hole from a standing position I was grinning from ear to ear and put it on lay-away until I get my purchase permit. New gun for me to play with this spring! The other thing I learned was that grip/frame on the Blackhawk was way to small for me to shoot comfortably and the 45-70 was much more enjoyable. I might have to start expanding my hunting activities to neighboring states so I can use this and my Contender this fall.

Re: New Gun for me too! [Re: karl] #169163 02/23/2016 9:35 AM
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REDHAWK1954 Offline
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Can you not use it there in Mississippi?


Michael Joe Moore
Re: New Gun for me too! [Re: REDHAWK1954] #169164 02/23/2016 11:01 AM
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dhom Offline
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I have a 45-70 barrel from SSK since the 80's.[reg contender 14"] They can be loaded pretty heavy even in the old model contenders design. I remember asking JDJones how effective would it be on whitetail. His reply was that I would be able to see when the bullet connected. The first deer I shot was a doe approx. 135 lbs. The deer upon impact took 4 steps sideways and fell over. [He was not kidding] I was loading a 400 gr Speer at 1300 fps. Since those days I really don't feel the need to use anything heavier than the 300 gr jacketed bullets.

Re: New Gun for me too! [Re: dhom] #169170 02/23/2016 1:53 PM
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cherokeetracker Offline
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Hope you enjoy the gun, it looks real good. Classic caliber.

Re: New Gun for me too! [Re: REDHAWK1954] #169174 02/23/2016 3:13 PM
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karl Offline OP
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 Originally Posted By: REDHAWK1954
Can you not use it there in Mississippi?


I'm up in Minnesota. We can use a centerfire pistol during firearm deer season, but with the current population, you are only allowed one deer a year in nearly all of the state.

I'm excited to start playing with the gun and reloading for it. With no muzzle break, I'm sure I'll reach my limit before I limit out the potential of the cartridge and the platform. I've got a lot of family in Alaska and hope to head that way for a moose hunt in the next couple years. In the mean time I'll work on putting big holes in deer and maybe even some hogs if I can organize it.

I'm actually going to be in Montana on a family trip just north of WY-SHOT this summer and plan on taking my contender with 30-30 and 17hmr barrels to see if I can stretch their legs on some P-dogs. I think the Encore will have to come with.

On a similar note I was wondering if anyone had any experience using some of the bullets designed for 458 SOCOM in the 45-70. the published velocities for the SOCOM are similar or a bit slower then the published 45-70 rifle velocities so they should function well. I was thinking that some of the Barnes bullets might be fun (and expensive) to play with.

Re: New Gun for me too! [Re: karl] #169178 02/23/2016 4:41 PM
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Bearbait in NM Offline
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Karl,

Congrats, looks like fun. I do not have a single shot 45-70, but do have the Socom and a Guide Gun. But I think that yes, toying with Socom bullets would be a great idea. You've probably figured out that if not running hard cast lead, you end up with a small selection of 45-70 bullets designed for levers, or a broader selection of bullets deigned for the win mag. The lever gun bullets are poor in the BC department, and the win mag are over designed for the 45-70.

Craig


Northern born and Southern bred
Re: New Gun for me too! [Re: karl] #169181 02/23/2016 5:18 PM
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s4s4u Offline
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Now ya got a real "hand cannon". If you don't wannt beat yourself up too bad, a nice 350ish grain hard cast or solid with a wide meplat running at around 1,500 fps will do all that need doin' on any game on this continent. Enjoy!


Rod, too.

Short cuts often lead to long recoveries.
Re: New Gun for me too! [Re: Bearbait in NM] #169182 02/23/2016 5:20 PM
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KARL,

Come to Virginia this fall. You can keep getting deer as long as you keep buying tags. My brother in law says North Carolina treats deer like varmints, so he stays busy in the fall too.

Nice find with the 45-70 Encore. It will balance better than my BFR and even Hornady Leverevolution bullets do the job on deer.


Last edited by BRASF0311; 02/23/2016 5:21 PM.
Re: New Gun for me too! [Re: karl] #169192 02/23/2016 8:34 PM
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pab1 Offline
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Good find! My all time favorite "rifle" handgun round! I've had three .45-70 handgun length barrels in Contender and Encore. All of them were very accurate with a variety of 300 gr JHPs over H4198. I got rid of the Contender barrels since I prefer using lighter rounds in them. It was fine to shoot in Contender I just take it easy on those frames.


Experience is the best teacher, hunger good sauce.
Osborne Russell Journal of a Trapper


Re: New Gun for me too! [Re: pab1] #169194 02/23/2016 8:50 PM
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In 2012 I did a bullet test with a .45-70 using 300 gr JHP Hornadys and 300 gr Nosler Partitions. I also tested 220 gr and 270 gr bullets in 375JDJ. It was a pretty tough test using particle board, catalogs and water jugs. Of coarse the Partition did well but the 300 gr Hornady really impressed me. People always talk about it being good for deer sized game but I think it would work on larger game too. It outperformed the 270 gr 375JDJ bullet which has been used to take some very large game. I still haven't taken anything with a .45-70 (other than a snowshoe hare with a 405 gr bullet using a Marlin 1895). I'll practice with it all summer and plan to use it but when season rolls around I'm usually in the mood for a revolver or a muzzleloader.

The test was done using my 12" .45-70 Encore barrel. For some reason the link doesn't show the inch symbol (") now. All the numbers listing the thickness of catalogs/particle board used and amount of penetration were in inches.

Here's a link to the test I did.
http://www.handgunhunt.com/forum/ubbthre...true#Post118083


Experience is the best teacher, hunger good sauce.
Osborne Russell Journal of a Trapper


Re: New Gun for me too! [Re: pab1] #169212 02/24/2016 3:59 AM
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Okie Hunter Online Happy
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Karl, you're in trouble now. You know those barrels multiply faster than rabbits.


With God all things are possible. Matt.19:26
Re: New Gun for me too! [Re: Okie Hunter] #169223 02/24/2016 8:26 PM
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Chance Weldon Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Okie Hunter
Karl, you're in trouble now. You know those barrels multiply faster than rabbits.


X2

Funny how that happens.


Formerly TN Lone Wolf

"We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided." - J.K. Rowling
Re: New Gun for me too! [Re: Okie Hunter] #169226 02/24/2016 9:00 PM
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karl Offline OP
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 Originally Posted By: Okie Hunter
Karl, you're in trouble now. You know those barrels multiply faster than rabbits.

I am well aware how contender barrels multiply
\:\)

After owning a contender with one barrel (410/45colt) for 15 years, I acquired 5 in the last year.
\:o


One perk of the encore is that there are far fewer used barrels popping up locally to tempt me.

I've got an email into Barnes asking about the various .458 caliber copper bullets they make and minimum velocities. A quick search of the various forums other people asking about using the same 458 SOCOM designed bullet in a 45-70, but few results of actual experience. The 458 SOCOM guys seem to love the bullet, so I imagine they would work well. The pictures of expanded bullets look impressive. Once I get the gun and work up a load I'll post some results.

Re: New Gun for me too! [Re: karl] #169227 02/24/2016 9:38 PM
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csherrill Offline
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I really enjoy shooting the 45-70. I have one in a contender barrel. Its always fun to pull out in a crowd.

Re: New Gun for me too! [Re: pab1] #169338 03/02/2016 8:21 PM
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karl Offline OP
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Thanks for the comments all. Thanks for the link to your investigation pab1. (side note, how do you search for 45-70 using the search function? I tried "45-70" and didn't get anything). I got some info back from Barnes wrt 0.458 cal bullets that I thought I would share. The minimum velocities listed are to start bullet expansion, but for optimal expansion add 100-200 fps. The bullets are tested to the upper limit velocity and must retain 100% weight (excluding plastic tip) at that velocity.

Barnes bullet #30640 and #30642 for the 458 SOCOM are the same bullet with suggested impact velocities of 1100-1900. They suggest using the load data for the 300gn TSX FN for guidance with the #30642 but realize that available case volume will change!

the following are all TSX bullets
#30629 250gn FN 1150fps ? 1600fps
#30615 300gn SP 1600fps ? 2300fps
#30630 300gn FN 1150fps ? 1600fps
#30617 350gn SP 1600fps ? 2300fps
#30619 450gn SP 1500fps ? 2200fps
#30622 500gn SP 1400fps ? 2200fps

Re: New Gun for me too! [Re: pab1] #172221 08/22/2016 10:53 PM
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karl Offline OP
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Update!
So After a few shots of the Leverlution loads this spring at the range, I sent it SSK for a fishgill break. Much more enjoyable to shoot with a break (also fun to pull out at the range next to some yahoo blasting off with an AR and no brass catcher). Barrel length is a bit over 13" with ~ 1.5" of break.
I spent some time playing with the Hornady 300 gn bullets (#4500) and was really worried when the best 100 yard groups were ~ 6" or so. Last weekend I headed out to the range with a bunch of the Barnes 300 gn 458 SOCOM bullets over RL 7 and found that 43 and 44 gn loads resulted in nice ~1.5" groups at 100 yards with velocities of ~1800fps (other powder loads opened up to 6-8"). I think that will make an excellent hunting load for this fall.

Some of the other interesting things I learned are that the throat in most factory 45-70s is nearly non-existent. If I ever get to the point where I need (I guess want might be a better word) to get more out of the gun, I could lengthen the throat by 0.25 inches to increase the powder capacity and get an extra ~100+ fps according to Quickload. From what I have read and been told by JD at SSK, many of the factory chambers won't allow for the use of 500 grain bullets (Hornady bullets) due to lack of throat. Unfortunately the SSK chamber only lengthens the throat by 0.060 or I would have had them do it. Now that I've seen that the gun will shoot, I'm looking for a spring kit and some of the other suggestions that have been posted recently to tune up an encore.

Re: New Gun for me too! [Re: karl] #172242 08/23/2016 3:30 PM
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Chance Weldon Offline
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I bet that gun turns some heads at the range when you fire it off.


Formerly TN Lone Wolf

"We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided." - J.K. Rowling
Re: New Gun for me too! [Re: Chance Weldon] #172320 08/26/2016 10:44 PM
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 Originally Posted By: TN Lone Wolf
I bet that gun turns some heads at the range when you fire it off.


LOL!! I bet your right!

Re: New Gun for me too! [Re: pab1] #172321 08/26/2016 11:04 PM
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reflex264 Offline
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More fun to shoot than a barrel of badgers.


"A quiet hit in the right place is better than a loud miss in the wrong place followed by 10 more shots on the run"

I was a handgun hunter, when handgun wasn't cool.....
Re: New Gun for me too! [Re: reflex264] #172324 08/27/2016 5:43 AM
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karl Offline OP
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 Originally Posted By: reflex264
More fun to shoot than a barrel of badgers.


Definately!
It makes the 30-30 feel and sound like a rim fire, but still quite manageable (and fun) with the break.

Re: New Gun for me too! [Re: pab1] #172840 09/11/2016 1:48 PM
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bluecow Offline
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SWEET!


Everything before "but" is B.S.
Re: New Gun for me too! [Re: bluecow] #172986 09/15/2016 4:24 AM
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sw282 Offline
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Love taking my SW 460Magnum PC 10 1/2'' with Brake to
Shooters now and then...When l LIGHT UP that 460 all
stop and take notice.. Esp the kiddies with their ARs.
l don't know whats more intimidating about that gun.
The noise from the muzzle blast, or the CONCUSSION that
follows when shooting factory Hornady FTX ammo @ 2400FPS


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