Well, it was inevitable. I couldn't take it and have moved back to Alaska. Again. I find myself living above the arctic circle in a native bush village as a LEO, and thus my question. My issue weapon, and the issue weapon of the Alaska State Trooper with whom I work, is a Glock 22 in .40S&W. Those that know me know I am a fan of neither the Glock nor the .40. But it is what it is. I'm looking for a personal off-duty carry weapon, and because of several issues involving practicality in the middle of no-where, I'm looking at getting a Glock 35 Gen 4. It is the long-slide version with narrower 1911-like ergonomics (its all relative)and longer site radius. I held one owned by my partner, and have never held a Glock that felt as balanced and pointable as his does. I was looking online, and a company called Double Tap makes 200grn hardcast for the .40 that runs at about 1100fps. We are overrun with wolves outside of town, and cow moose with babies here in town and out on the edges who would like to stomp you into a puddle of goo. I have my 71/2" .44mag of course, for full off duty hunting carry, but am looking for a compromise to carry both here in the village and in town, with the familiarity of the duty gun and exchangeable mags, but a little bit of usefulness for facing the unique challenges faced right here in town or when going to the airport or the dump while on a snowmachine or 4-wheeler. Any feed back?

Congratulations on the move. I visited Alaska last year as a tourist. Fantastic place, I can understand why moving there would appeal so much.

I suspect that wolves could be easily taken with .40S&W. I have grave doubts about the cartridge's effectiveness on large animals such as cow moose, bear etc. I wouldn't want to bet my life on it. The extra barrel length will only give a limited velocity increase. For what its worth, I'd want something bigger than .40S&W.

If you like the feel of the G35 length, then maybe you could think about either the G40 (10mm) or G41 (.45ACP). (Talk to Bearbait about .45 Super). Both the G40 and the G41 have the same approximate size as the G35. Both are available in either Standard or MOS configuration. These will have all the required similarity to your issue weapon, but will pack a heavier punch. The downside is that the magazines wont be interchangeable with your issue mags.

If you're looking at hot loads in any Glock, then you might want to get an aftermarket barrel, such as a Lone Wolf, with a supported chamber. Glock factory chambers poorly supported because they are designed for reliability with standard service ammo. They can have problems with hotter ammo.

I'd opt for the G40 in 10mm.

I'm not going to tell you 10mm equates to the Hammer-of-Thor like some folks, but it would give you a little added thump over the 40. Lots of people shoot 40 through the 10mm for range ammo as well ... That alone might be worth it in your case. Many seem to think the stock barrels don't like Hardcast as well.

Just food for thought.

Ahhhhh..... Just move back to Colorado and ya won't have to worry about it!!

You're one of the best guys my wife and I have ever met, and we'd be glad to have ya back! You and your entire family. Sure enjoyed you guys!

Back to topic at hand...
I'd say get a 45 Colt and load it to the hilt! But you know how biased I am concerning the 45 Colt.

I have a Glock 35 and really like it. I trust mine against 2 legged predators but not sure about moose. I vote with Raptortrapper and get a 45 Colt or 44 Mag.

Yeah, I have a .44mag which is my normal bush carry. I was just wondering about in the village, and on its edges. Really glad for the info regarding the questionability of the Glock with heavy loads. Frankly, the only reason for looking at a Glock as a personal carry was the possibility of interchangeability and one ammo for everything. (there is no ammo store, no ffl dealer anywhere near. Maybe 400 miles?

If I need to look at a different round, and a different setup to shoot the heavier loads for personal off-duty carry in town, I reckon I should just go head and go with my original choice, a good 1911 with a good carbon steel slide and eventually a .460 Rowland conversion. The Glock 22 is required for duty, but not my first, or even third, personal choice. If the Glock 35 will not fill the niche of off duty carry that covers people concerns as well as wildlife concerns right here on the edge of "town" (population 364) it's going to be more compromise than I want to take. That .44mag is hard to carry concealed while sitting in on a village counsel meeting!

BH,

I too am a big fan of the 1911, and have a lot of money sunk into them. But, I have recently revisited Glocks, and have been very happy with my 41 and 43. The 41 frame is certainly bigger than the 35 that you tried, but with the slimmer slide (an weight v. 1911) it really is a joy to shoot and carry.

My decision was a little similar to your situation, i.e rural carry. Up at the ranch, which is fairly remote, we have problems with critters and trespassers and poachers. I decided a few extra rounds in a gun was not a bad idea. With my 41, 14 in the gun, and 17 in a single extended mag is so much simpler than trying to carry a 1911, and a belt full of mag pouches. I kinda despise the trigger, but have decided to learn it.

I have good friend who is LE in a Colorado Mountain town. He is also a 1911 fan, but more recent events with LE being targeted with gunfire more "casually" has him carrying high capacity now. Hard to imagine with such a low population that you would worry so much about about people protection, but if your remoteness brings serious alcohol abuse or the stereotypical remote nutjob, maybe capacity is not such a bad thing. A pack of wolves or even dogs, dunno. Sounds like maybe your backup is what is on your belt, and not who is at the other end of your radio.

Besides the ease that my Glock carries and shoots compared to my 1911's, I have really been impressed at how well it takes to my hot loading in 45 Super. In my almost 16 years of playing with the Rowland, and 5 or so of the 45 Super, the 1911's have always been a little fussy about OAL, feeding, bullet shapes and weights. The usual gotta tweak this and that, or I get occasional misfeeds, etc. Tapered lip mags for this bullet shape, parallel for that other bullet. With around 1500 rounds through my 41 since late last year, it has never stumbled, not even once. Both factory and LWD barrel. Super's, ammo tailored to my 1911's or 625. lead swc's, xtps, fmj's, you name it. It really does just go bang every time. Color me extremely impressed.

If you can confirm the applicability of firing 40's in a 10, that might not be a bad way to go. The one upside to the 45 platform, is that the gun can correctly fire everything from low powered acp's to decent Supers. My 41 is of the narrow slide variety like the 34/35, so no nuclear Supers. But I can and have duplicated 10mm velocities with a wider and heavier bullet.

Craig

I dunno. Maybe I should just get a short bbl Ruger Alaskan in .460 and forget about it. I can go .45lc, .454 Casull and .460 in a somewhat packable package under the coat or vest that we wear year round. I'm worse than a woman buying shoes. Very expensive shoes!

HAHA!! Well, when you decide which shoes ya want to go with, let us know!

I just realized its the .480, not the .460, that is available in the Ruger Alaskan. (sigh)

I dont want much. One easily concealed firearm that will take care of everything from a disgruntled Hillary supporter of doubtful intellectual accountability to a disgruntled 12' Alaskan grizzly that's accountable to no one! Is that too much to ask?

It's not the firearm that is the problem between the two extremes, it the choice of the proper bullet ;^)

Fortunately for me, the bears we have are smaller, and while a full size elk is a bit smaller than a moose, they have a lower propensity to get all pissy and "stompy".

Craig

There are, I believe, about 20 total law enforcement officers in my area(Alaska State Troopers, Kotzebue PD and us VPSO's) covering 39,000 square miles, which is about the size of the state of Illinois, and a population of 7,500 people. We have all of the problems of other areas such as rampant domestic violence, theft, sexual assault, alcohol fueled violence and drugs, along with a strong firearms culture coupled with arctic weather/geography and LARGE belligerent wildlife. In the village, there is no backup, no partners, no dispatch etc. I answer every 3:00am alcohol-driven DV call and street fight completely alone. Because of the convoluted, complicated political climate, I am currently forbidden as a VPSO to officially carry a firearm. (Look carefully at that last sentence, there is a very important word in there :)) This will change later with further training, but that doesn't help me now. This area, North West Arctic Borough, is one of the only areas in the state where the VPSO's are at times required to leave the village and travel the bush by plane, boat or snowmachine to another area to deal with things. I went up river about 100 miles the other day to help handle a possible arrest and prisoner transport on a felony warrant in a smaller village with no VPSO.

So concealability, dependability and Hammer-of-Thor ferocity are what I personally am looking at. Grizzly are not my big worry, they stay out of the village mostly, and I carry a .416 Rigby when way out. (Sorry, handgunners, but did I mention the griz grows to over 12' out here?!?!) I think everything else can be taken care of with a .45acp converted to a .460 Rowland as needed. (I have a buddy that killed a moose with his .40S&W Glock) After reading bearbait's posts, I think that maybe the Glock 21 Gen4 will give me the concealability, familiarity with future duty pistol, and ability to convert to the .460R. They will not convert the Glock 41 to .460R due to the thinner slide. If I go this route, I understand that I can still shoot the standard .45acp and even the .45 Super. Does it sound like I am on track? Bearbait?

If it were me (and it's not...), and the G41 is an option, I'd certainly consider the G40 in 10mm. No conversion necessary, and factory ammo is available and becoming more popular with a couple new loadings I've recently seen.

BH,

I assumed you were regular ASP. I looked up VPSO, and now I get it. I was a little confused as to why concealed was an issue, given you are law enforcement. You are more of a cross between emt, fire and police. I get the sensitivity. I was in situation once, working Security in a very large building in the PNW. We had a no firearms policy, but I had a concealed carry permit. I managed to walked that line.

OK. Yes, the 21 is a better Glock platform to run 460 Rowland, than the 41. But, with the goofy LWD gill comp, I have safely fired 230's at 1250, and 185's at 1500 fps, all in 45 Super brass, from my 41. Not a lot, and I have no idea if these would crack a slide, early. What the 41 brings to this table is the thinner slide, and longer barrel. With my LWD threaded barrel, I have 6 inches of rifling. Little more barrel length, requiring a little less pressure for the same velocity. I feel reasonably comfortable running 45 Supers close to 10mm velocity from my 41, without a comp. With a comp, I am at low end Rowland.

The 41 is dimensionally similar to the 5" 1911, except for the wider grip/frame. Neither the 41 nor 1911 is the best choice for stuffing in your britches, but having done so they are not horrible. A comp on the 1911 Rowland, 45 Super 41 or Rowland 21 would all be about a push, for length.

The 21 seems to be somewhat proven for at least some durability as it pertains to the higher pressure. Same with the 1911. The 41 has very little history doing this job, so that is the big roll of the dice. 21K of pressure is 45acp. 40k is either 460 Rowland or 10mm. The 10 has less breech back thrust, so I am holding my Supers close to what should be about 30k.

Just to add to the confusion, folks are doing Rowland type stuff with the Glock 30 and 36. This would be about like doing Rowland or Super on a Commander or Officer's model. If concealability has to trump the top end performance, the 30 might not be a bad choice. It is standard 10 rounds, but takes the 21's 13 round magazines. Or the adapted 17 rounder that I have finally sorted out.

And just so we are clear on this, any of the 21, 41, 30 or even 36 would require an aftermarket barrel. I would NOT run anything more than +p through my Glock 41 factory barrel. The case support is horrible.

Craig

Craig, After all my research and your terrific information, I'm going to go with the Glock 21 Gen 4. I looked up on LWD and came up with their 460R bbl #LWD-2146OTH and their comp LWD21. The only thing I have not found yet on there are the heavier springs.

The 45acp ammo is readily available, and I really like that as a fallback option for regular town carry and practice. Everything we get is mailed in, and mail is iffy. So the extra power of the 460R coupled with the availability of the 45acp and the concealability of a G21 gives me a practical compromise that seems to best fit my situation. As much as I would prefer the slimmer long-slide, I feel in the end that I had better opt for the extra ruggedness and power.

I cant tell you how much I appreciate your help and advice. I get this set up in, and I will probably be bending your ear some more. Thank You!

BH,

I am not sure what it is with the LWD website, but it is a pain to find things with their search function. Could not find the exact comp listed. But if it is what they recommend, then you should be good to go. Some folks complain that the LWD stuff is not true Johnny Rowland "stuff', but getting things from them (Rowland) seems to be spotty. You can ream any 45acp barrel with adequate case support to chamber 460. I have done a few myself, for the 1911. The one area that needs concern is that true Rowland barrels should also have a little more freebore also reamed into the chamber leade. With factory Rowland ammo, you will need to be sure that the rounds do not get jammed into the rifling. I might suggest broaching this subject with LWD, to make sure you get a chamber that not short chambered.

As to the springs, I would try calling them or somehow getting a person. The Gen 4 slides use different dimensions on the hole in the slide for the RSA, than the Gen 3's. For mine, I went with an ISMI SS captured RSA assembly, ISMI 22 and 24 pound Gen 3 springs, and a conversion washer that allows the Gen 3 RSA to fit a Gen 4. There are apparently some Gen 4 RSA's out now that do not need the conversion washer. I think mine (washer) is by Zev, and it works perfectly. I think I got all my RSA parts from Brownells. Just be sure to research this carefully, or work through it with LWD. I do not have a Gen 4 21 to compare.

I too would have gone with a 21, had that been available in the MOS configuration. I do think the 21 is better suited for the Rowland conversion, but I placed a higher premium on the optic ability.

My ex-wife had family near Fairbanks for a lot of years, so I understand how getting normal stuff can be a pain for you folks, up there. Good luck, and always here,

Craig

UPDATE:

I couldnt help it. I tried. My intententions were pure, my research was thorough, my logic was sound. The advice I was given on here was wise and of impeccable pedigree. So I have no one to blame but myself.

I flew home from the bush last week for mother's day, to be with the family for a week. I took my 14yo son on Monday out to spend the day with him, and we stopped by a pawn shop, "just to look around". I had tried my friend's Glock the day before, and it felt just like I remembered, like a plastic 2x4 in the rough shape of a handgun. But I was going to be a responsible adult and get one for all of the excellent reasons listed above.

Then I saw this in the case. I was a gonner.

[img][/img]

Kimber Warrior SOC in .45acp
Almost brand new, doesnt look fired at all, for 500.00 cheaper than the new one in the store cross town.

Im just so much more comfortable with a 1911, and I guess Im too old to change easily.

Those two should handle anything you run up against. Good man with a good gun and a good knife , thats a winning hand .

"like a plastic 2x4 in the rough shape of a handgun"
Couldn't have been put any better; almost like poetry.
BTW, nice hat. Fur seal?

Thank you, yes. Spotted leopard seal and sea otter. On a snowmachine ride down-river in Feburary at -30?, its unbelievably warm.