I was checking the zero on both Contenders today getting ready for Opening Day the 12th. I was planning on chronographing my Optima Muzzleloader, and figured this was a good time to compair the 357 Maximum to the 35 Bullberry.

35 Bullberry (35 Remington Rimmed Power Wise for all practical purposes)
Brass: Starline 38-55 resized and fireformed into 35 Bullberry
Primers: Remington Large Rifle
Powder: H322
Charge: 38.5 Grains
Bullet: Hornady 180 XTP seated to lower crimp groove
Barrel: Contender 14" By Bullberry Barrel Works

VELOCITY: 1,909 fps

357 Maximum
Brass: New Remington 357 Maximum
Primers: Remington Small Rifle Bench Rest (7-1/2)
Powder: 300MP
Charge: 21.0 Grains
Bullet: Hornady 180 XTP seated to lower crimp groove
Barrel: Contender 13" by MGM

VELOCITY: 1,793 fps

The 35 Bullberry (Using the same powder charge as the 35 Remington Rimmed) only gained 116 fps over the 357 Maximum which had an Inch shorter barrel. The 35 Bullberry is basicly a 35 Remington Rimmed that can be formed from 375 Winchester and the much easier to buy 38-55 Starline Brass. (NOTE: It requires 35 Bullberry Dies available from C&H) The 38.5 grain Charge of H322 filled the case to the bottom of the neck. With the 180 XTP seated long this was 100% case fill. I am happy with the velocity of both rounds.

I am not sure the 116 fps difference will be noticeable to a deer inside 100 yards. Quite a difference in the powder charge required to get both to that velocity however.

NOTE: The 21.0 grain load of 300MP used in the 357 Maximum Contender is not a load found in Reloading Manuals. I worked up to that load carefully from below watching for any pressure signs. It appeared safe in my Contender, however it might not be in yours. It is certainly WAY To HOT for a Revolver. Use Caution.

Bob

I was doing a little thinking after the fact. This was probably the first "almost" apples to apples comparison I have seen of a 35 Remington to a 357 Maximum in a Contender.
The 38.5 grain load is a Maximum Book Load listed for a 35 Remington Contender, and it is a 100% Fill Load in the 35 Bullberry. That should be about as close as that gets.

Both Cartridges are using the same Hornady 180 grain XTP Bullets from the same box.

That gets us to the 1 Inch shorter 357 Maximum Barrel. The 1 Inch difference in barrel length probably cost the 357 Max a small amount of velocity. How Much?? I would venture a guess at 25-30 fps.

I would venture a guess that the 357 Maximum will only gain in popularity now that Starline is making 357 Maximum Brass. Barrels: MGM has pretty fair prices on the 13 Inch Max barrel for the Contender.

The 357 Maximum is:
A miser on powder consumption
Has 2 great factory bullets The Hornady 180 XTP and 158 XTP FP
Tolerable Recoil
Not a Pain to form cases for (35 Remington Rimmed and 357 H are)
Cheap readily available brass from Starline
New MGM 13" barrels are reasonable in price
Works well with H110, 296, LilGun, 300MP, and 1680 powders
Dies are cheap to reload it with, nothing exotic required
The Rimmed case works great in a Contender
It will also shoot 38 Special, 357 Magnum, and 360 Dan Wesson ammunition

Whats Not To Love about the 357 Maximum?

Bob

I'd figure about twice that. It really depends on the length to begin with. When you get below 14" the velocity drops a lot more per inch than longer.



Not a thing ;-)

Rod that would put them a lot closer together with the same length barrels. The 116 fps was not that far apart to start with. Erase about 60 off that, and you are very close.

Bob

My 14" 35 rem rimmed contender with H322 and 180 gr hornady ssp does 2150+fps. Actually if memory serves me correctly it chronographed 2188fps.
Single shot pistol loads will out run lever action loads.
Sierra used to publish 40-42gr???, I forget exactly, of h322 with a 180 in a single shot pistol.

Have a 14" 357max as well, just never compared them. Long on ideas and experiments....short on time.

KYODE I was loading the 35 Bullberry with 39.0 grains of H322 and the 180 SSP for many years. My old post has 2248 listed as maximum velocity. I believe this is the same load you are using from that post.
My Hornady 7th Edition lists 38.6 grains as a maximum load with H322 and a 180 grain bullet for 2200 fps from a 15" XP100.
My Sierra 5th Edition shows a maximum load of 40.8 grains of H322 with a 180 grain bullet for a velocity of 2100 from a 14" Contender.
I was getting higher velocity using the Hornady 180 grain SSP (Single Shot Pistol) bullets, than I am the 180 grain XTP's. Not sure why, less pressure with a .357 bullet, more bearing surface with the 180 XTP? Not sure.
I did not have a Full Length sizing die for the 35 Bullberry for several years. The instructions from Bullberry said to use a 35 Remington die backed off for the longer 35 Bullberry length. I was experiancing case streatch after a couple firings, and could not close the action on a loaded round. This lead me to believe I might be a hair HOT, so I decided downloading a little was not a bad idea. So I decided to back my load down to the Hornady Load. I also did some research and found that C&H carried the 35 Bullberry 2 die set, and I bought a die set. Now it is as easy to reload for as a 30-30.

I should try the 180 SSP and the 180 XTP side by side with the same loads 38.5 and or 39.0 grains of H322 and see what happens. I still have a few 180 SSP's on hand that I can load.

Bob

That would be a very interesting test! Love to hear how it goes.

Have you ever shot anything with the 180xtp at those velocities? Curious. I have some max's loaded up with them and 180 rem jhp but havnt used em on anything.

Bob R. I'll slide some of my findings in on the 357 RMax,35Rem & 35Bullberry comparison. I've got two RMax barrels, a Hunter14"& a S14". The Hunter takes the honors for max loads but both barrels are quite accurate. Velocities w/180,170 gr bullets( w/o data in front of me) are all in high 1700"s to 1800+.The 35 BB loads are close at hand so,,. 35BB w/12" bbl 180 Speer FN,Fed 210 primer, 39grs Re-7 hits 2115fps. 180 Hornady SSP,WLR primer, 38.5grs AA2230-C hits 1825fps & 200Rem RN, Fed 210 primer 37.7grs Re-7 gives 2075fps. All cases are reformed 30-30's.I did start w/375Win brass as per Fred Smith's advice when I acquired the barrel, but changed over when I found a 375Win Carbine barrel. Have tried the 38-55 brass for 375 Paco Kelly loads, but not 35BB, as I have several boxes of 30-30 reformed. I have a split box of AA 2520 & LVR w/ 180 Hornady SSP's to run across the Chrono screens yet. My S14" 35Rem loads are ;180gr SSP WLR primer w/42.5grs LVR gives 1945fps. 200Rem RN, WLR primer w/41grs LVR does 1945fps. 200Hornady Spire Point WLR primer w/41.3grs LVR gives 1950fps. These loads are from 5 shot averages as I had many loads to test at the same time. Some could go w/ a few tenths more but to what gain? All were more than MOA of game accurate and hit the hand with stout recoil. I stick with the factory black Rynite grips for all Contender frames. Pachmayr just "give" too much for me. I wish I had an S14 35BB to shoot along side the 35Rem S14 for a true "apples to apples" test. Have some 300MP to try in my 357RMax(s) sometime later also. Loads for my guns only please. All great cartridges!!