When working up to max loads in a Contender 30-30AI, which pressure sign is the best indicator of true max pressure? I can't hardly even get started without the primers showing at least a little flattening but the empty cases just fall out without any sticky opening. If I relied on primer signs alone, I would have to settle for what should be pretty anemic loads. I'm not a hotrodder, but I would like a load that's as good as I can get.

well Ive used primers as an indicator for years.
sticking cases would have a lot to do with the chamber size

I think primers can lie to you or be misread,but sticky opening or extraction get my attention quick.I have one gun that with the same powder charge but 3 different 140 gr bullets. It will stick cases with two bullets but not the third .I think it is at max, at least with those two bullets.This is not with a max charge according to my books. Sticky cases tend to bend extractors in the Contender causing other problems.

Festus - primers are all I used for years also. Now I hear that they may not be the best indicator in a Contender. That is one reason for my question. Everything else seems to be good to go.
junebug - I'm on the same track as you with regards to different bullets. The two mono bullets I've tried, 150gr Barnes, and 140gr Hornaday GMX, are so long that I have to seat them very deep in the case. I'm thinking that would have to raise pressures somewhat.

Thanks to both of you. I'm just trying to get as much as I can within reason out of my Contender without blowing it up.

If you want to get all you can out of a cartridge, just buy an Encore and forget the Contender. Lots of stories out there about using mono bullets, or even partitions, in Contenders with unexpected rises in pressure and/or more abrupt rises in pressure curves leading to blown cases, frame stretching, etc. It's not that you can't do it, but a matter of how long you can do it or how far you can push it before it becomes an issue... If it's a G2 maybe it's a different story.

Others here are much more knowledgable, but I use flat primers, the appearance of the rim fire firing pin hole, stickiness, published data and validated quickload pressures with matching velocities. The occasional appearance of the beginnings of the rimfire firing pin hole on the edge of the primer has correlated well for me with max from quick load in 30-30. I found that ppu cases are always sticky for me in 30-30 or 223 compared to other brands.
I wouldn't be afraid of shooting lighter mono bullets. They hold together so much better then most lead core that penetration usually isn't an issue (terminal velocity usually is). I am particularly fond of the black tipped 30cal Barnes tac-tx. The maximum range based on terminal performance is rediculously far in 30-30. They are turning into a believer of bullet choice driving cartridge caliber selection. I shoot the 110gn version. If I didn't have several years supply sitting in the shelf, I would try the 120gn version. Max range is about the same with the increased bc. This summer I plan to polish up a load that is 200fps slower the my current hunting load but groups better. I hope to push my comfort level out to 300 yards with a 30-30 in pistol.

I prefer not to run red line charges in my Contenders .I want decent speeds but that last 100 fps isn't important to me. If I want more speed I go to a bigger faster cartridge.After almost 40 years I am still using my original frame.

Something you might want to try is making sure your cases are completely lube free. The 30-30AI should grab the chamber walls well when lube free.
My brother is using 125 Nozlers in his. Only one kill so far, and that was with a Fire Form Load at around 150 yards.
I do not get real concerned with just Flat Primers, Cratering is a sign I pay attention to.
You have other factors to consider. What primers you are using. Some primers, Federal comes to mind, are softer than others. So you will start getting Flattening and Cratering at different pressure points with different primers.
Going with a hard primer is probably not the thing to do working up loads.

Bob

If I used flattened primers as my stop sign, I'd never get going. That can happen with some pretty anemic loads.

Have you checked the head spacing?

even cratered primers can be misleading. a couple of my bolt guns have a larger than needed tolerance around the firing pin and extrude very easy. as for other pressure signs you can measure case head expansion but that again could change due to chamber size and die size. im with junebug on this one. the contenders are not as stout as the encores and at practical hunting distance whats 100FPS going to gain you

"Have you checked the head spacing?"
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That is an excellent question.

In the tc beak open action, if the case is sized to fit the chamber and also fill the barrel to frame gap, then it will be hard to get a flattened primer. The case cannot stretch enough to slam the breechface and flatten the primer. The action may flex(a characteristic of a break action) under high pressure. I guess extreme pressure could even stretch the action.

Why not back the size die up off the shellholder .005"-.010"? That usually where several sets of mine ended up on most barrels after carefully adjusting for headspace.....to the best of my ability.

Just my opinions....and im no expert scientist, nor do i want to be.

If you felt comfortable increasing the charge to see if you are really at max or find where it truly is.....just try a few cases so as not to excessively over work all your brass. If you do, work in small increments of .5gr or so.

You might want to go to Mike Bellm's web site (www.bellmtcs.com) and scroll through the articles he has written; there is an excellent one on reading pressure signs in a TC Contender. Mr. Bellm has his supporters and detractors, but regardless of which side of the fence you sit on I think most would agree that his knowledge of Contenders is exceptional. Read some of his articles and you will learn a lot.

Here's what I use:

Caution sign: flattening primers - begin to pay more attention to cases
Warning sign: reduced amount or complete lack of soot on the case exterior - this is about as hot as I generally want to go
Danger sign: sticky extraction or damaged primers - time to reduce the loads.

WOW! Lots of food for thought, thanks. I set the dies so that a resized case will freely slide all the way into the chamber of the barrel when it's off the frame. I just kept turning down the die until the rim of the case just sets onto the rim of the chamber.
As far as primers, I will just keep an eye on them and if the cases come out without any sticking and the primers aren't damaged or completely flat, I think I will be alright.
The load I'm thinking about is 31.5grs. of IMR4198, 140gr. Hornaday GMX (monolythic), at a touch over 2,300fps. The load seems to be safe in my gun and will be plenty for any deer, antelope, or blackbear at the distances I hunt at. Starting in 2019 I will be forced to use a Mono bullet here in Calif. so I might as well start using them now.

You may not be too far off on your sizing but i would recommend you also take into account, the barrel to frame gap. You want to fill the chamber, plus enough case sticking out of the barrel to fill the barrel/frame gap....minus a couple thousandths. A few thousandths one way or the other can be very important on a break action.
I still bet you could eliminate the flat primer. There should be some good reading at bellmtcs.com like previously mentioned.