Hello All
Does anyone have any experience with the Xtreme Defense bullets in hunting situations? (looking at you Zee :))
The marketing hype says they are the bee's knees and the best thing since sliced bread, but I'd love to hear about some personal experience in animals.

Are those the bullets produced by Lehigh? If so, member trademark used some recently on deer.

we used a 357 on deer, it was the xtreme penetrator round. the round did a great job. the question is how do the larger rounds to vs larger game. at some point i suspect that the channels designed to cause damage via hydrostatic forces may not be enough to cause permanent damage in the tissue of larger tougher game. on deer it was very very telling but we are going to use it again on deer and then step up and use some in much larger calibers on much larger game culminating with a 454/475/500 round on large buff next october. i can tell you they penetrate like the devils hammer. they stay together well and the wound channels from the 357 were not as large but worthy of comparison with a 480 ruger wfn. once again, how this will translate on larger game remains to be seen but initially to even talk about a 357 solid in the same sentence as a 475 would not have happened. that said, i think when all is said and done, the size of the bullet both in diameter and weight will likely not be all we talk about, but the speed of the bullet and the nose profile, whether an x shape or a more traditional solid profile will be something that i think we will find impacts actual wound channels more than anything. we've had 30+ years of literally handicapping our thought process on what cartridges do what damage to what game all because it has centered around wet paper tests and also old bullet designs (i.e. hardcast lead only on dangerous game) and will find newer technologies will change that game and perception. very similiar to how barnes tsx bullets and flat point solids changed the game in african game.


we will see if the lehigh defense and penetrator rounds live up to the billing gel testing gives them.

Very interesting Trademark! If you don't mind, please keep us informed of what you find. I am looking for 10mm hunting loads for deer and they are one of the options.

Karl, I've tested .40 bullets extensively on deer. Light ones don't penetrate well. Heavy ones penetrate, but rarely expand. The #1 .40 bullet I've had the most 1 shot stops is the 165 gr. Sierra JHC.
I also test Lehigh subsonics for them on deer. The best .30 cal. is the 186 gr. "double bullet" or fracturing HP. It has a .17 cal. bullet placed in the hollow cavity of the .30 cal. The nose is scored so it fragments in 4 pieces. You have 6 projectiles causing damage in the deer-base, .17 cal. bullet, and 4 nose pieces. It's the only subsonic bullet that I get 95% instant stops on deer and smaller animals.

The lehigh 10mm round with the xtreme penetrator is a winner. Fast and that 357 blew thru the deer without slowing down. I wouldnt hesitate to use it or the 10mm load as loaded by underwood on elk or bear. Not in the least! I think on deer u could get away with alot more expansion. I would try a hot
Loaded barnes if it was just deer

Just a short update on the 10mm Underwood loading of the Extreme penetrator and defense rounds.
In a Glock G40 with 6.5" KKM barrel with compensator and ambient temp of 20F, both the Defense and Penetrator rounds clocked out matching their published speeds (1495 and 1701) with extremely low spread (+-6fps on the defense load). The 140gn Penetrator loads shot more accurately (~3" group at 47 yards) vs the Defense (~8"+ group)
The real surprise of the day was that the Buffalo Barnes 155gn load clocked in at 1541fps and is specified at 1350fps. that gives it 816ftlbs of energy at the muzzle! It also shot a 3" group at 47 yards. (groups were shot off a bag with a reddot)

Edit, The Barnes website specs a 1500fps velocity with a 6" barrel, so it should be much of a surprise.

Blame this on me being new and unsure of the etiquette of bringing up old threads. I just have a strong curiosity for this bullets effectiveness on large game. I have an upcoming buffalo hunt on the House Rock herd in Arizona. Been dreaming of this hunt for a LONG time! I will hunt with either my 454 Casull SBH or my bow. My primary choice for the 454 is a 400 gr WFNGC hardcast handloaded to 1300 fps. I?ve also played with the 250 gr LeHigh penetrator loaded to 1550 fps. Game and Fish encourages non-lead but it?s not mandatory. Has there been any more experience with large game (buffalo) and the Lehigh penetrator bullets? Or should I just stick with what many of you have already proven to be a lethal bullet in the WFN hardcast bullet?

There were some recent reports of it being used on big animals (bovine) this summer and they said penetration was straight and deep and wound channels were respectiable and compared favorably to cast. Mono-metal bullets (not cast lead) were considered superior when you needed 100% confidence of straight penetration.

I think this is the thread, but it may have been discussed a couple places
http://www.handgunhunt.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/183501/page/3#Post183501

I've only used Lehigh subsonic bullets (in most calibers) and supersonic in .30 cal. All are quality bullets. No reason to expect the solids not working.
Another consideration are X bullets. Biggest thing I've taken is a 8' brown bear with a 375 gr. X in .500 S&W- one shot and huge lioness with 275 gr. .475 X.
On the other hand, a friend took a 9' brown bear with a .376 Steyr Encore and 260 gr. AB and I did a big Shiras moose with the same 260 gr. .375 bullet. They did well on both animals.

Thank you both for the replies! I'm surprised by the results of the hardcast on the real heavy animals. I have no handgun experience personally on that size animal... yet, so I research and learn from you all. Think I'll be picking up some Barnes XPB's and more of the Lehigh Penetrators and see which shoots best for this hunt. I'll stick to my 400 WFN's for everything else.

I did my own non-scientific penetration tests with 400 gr hardcast vs the 250 gr Lehigh Penetrators and I was really pleased how well the Lehigh performed. That was on a combo of four 1-gallon water jugs bookended with pine/oak on each end. Not the same as a critter but gave me a relative perspective between the two. I recovered the hardcast and the nose was slightly deformed. It stopped at the oak after 2-1/2" of pine and 4 jugs. The Lehigh penetrated clean through 3" of pine, 1" of oak and 4 water jugs and was laying on the ground 20 feet behind the target with no damage. Felt I could have reloaded it!

Either will work, load the lehigh and the barnes hot and for bison out of a 454 id use the barnes. Nothing touches it in the damage category. Bison arent hard to kill. You should reach over 1800 fos with the barnes and it will not leave you wanting.

I talked to them about an hour last week. I have some of their new .475 330grs setting at the house right now waiting to be loaded. It is as long as a lead 405 grain. I will run them side by side in the ballistic buff and see what happens.

I did some penetration testing with those 475 330gr lehighs. They did well thru tough bone. Its easy to think they may be too light but maintaining nose profile is much more important than grain weight. No matter what they do in gel or
Paper, it all changes when heavy bone is involved.

The 330gr 475




Will be loading some this weekend.

LOOKS LIKE THEIR WFN.

ARE THE GROOVES CANNELURES OR JUST RINGS CUT IN THE METAL TO AID WITH PRESSURES, a la TSX BULLETS?

Yes Sir they are to reduce pressure.

The lehigh pressure up better than the cutting edge bullets, but ya can get velocity with either if u know how to crimp.

I just ordered a box of the 0.452 Lehigh Xtreme Defense 220 gr bullets for my 454. Hope to do some penetration testing a steer shoulder from my local butcher to see how they do on bone. The flutes get a little thin so I'm curious if they'll retain their shape after heavy bone and still deliver penetration and tissue damage. May take me a little while before I can get out and test but I can report back what I find.