I finally read Gregg's article on his muzzle loader bull elk, which was a fantastic story by the way. For several years I've thought that going after whitetails with a ML pistol would be pretty cool but never really was big on hunting with a ML rifle.

What experience can anyone share about hunting with a ML pistol whether the Encore, CVA or other? Thanks in advance.

The only hunting-suitable muzzleloader pistol currently on the market that I'm aware of is the CVA Optima V2 pistol, unless you go with the Encore 50x209 barrel from Bullberry. It's not much of an issue, since either choice will give you a dependable muzzleloader pistol.

I only have one season of experience hunting with my Optima, but I'm pretty happy with it. The only downside is that it's a heavy kicker, but if you can handle it, it becomes an effective hunting handgun. With a good scope, mine is capable of 2" groups at 100 yards, and I would even venture to say it's capable of reaching out to 150. Unfortunately, I haven't taken anything with it yet, but I'm hoping to change that this season.

What bullet are you loading, have you tested expansion with it yet?

We can't use muzzleloading pistols in ohio unfortunately.....

I'm using the Barnes .451" 200 grain XPB designed for the 45 Colt, along with a Harvester Crushed Rib sabot. With 80 grains of Blackhorn 209, it's averaging 1550 fps. Haven't tested expansion yet, but I'm pretty sure it would expand just fine even at low speeds given its massive hollow point cavity.

I hunted with mine last year, but did not fire a shot.
You do not need to worry about power with a CVA Optima V2 Pistol. It is capable of driving a 45 Colt bullet hard enough to kill anything in North America.
Using my Brass Powder Measure set for 95 grains of 2F GOEX Black Powder (Weighed) I got the following results:
A 95 Grain Equivalent load of Triple Seven under a 250 grain XTP in a Harvester Sabot will clock around 1550 fps.
Black MZ and BlackHorn 209 also loaded at 95 Grains Equivalent will do about 1450 fps. Using 2 of the 50 grain Equivalent Pellets in Pyrodex, and Triple 7 will do around 1400 fps. With Blue MZ Pellets 50/50 I was getting around 1250 fps. The above were first shot through a clean barrel. I am sure that the Black MZ and BlackHorn 209 with a little more powder will also get up to 1550 fps. As was said above, This is no popgun. It recoils as you would expect driving a 250 grain bullet at 1550 fps from a 14 inch handgun barrel.
Mine is also plenty accurate to hunt with. Great Trigger, easy to break down to clean.
I did put the EGW Scope Base on mine, which has several more slots in it. I have a new Burris 2-7 Ballistic Plex Scope on mine. I really hate to say this, but you will be much happier spending a little more on powder, and buying the BlackHorn 209. No comparison on how clean it burns. This is a BIG DEAL if you need to load for additional shots in the field. With BlackHorn 209 the Second and Third shots load just as easy as the First. You cannot say this about any other Black Powder Substitute Powder I have tried.

Bob

Chance and Bob, sounds like you guys have done a bit of testing for the CVA already. I've got an Encore but have no doubt about that platform. And I don't mind spending more on powder if it's worth it and it sounds like it is.

Like I said above, I was never much on muzzle loading rifles but a pistol could be fun.

Blackhorn 209 is worth every penny.

I have a factory 15 inch 209x50 TC Encore barrel that I hunt with. I tried several weights of bullets and amounts of powder and found mine likes 100 grains of loose Triple 7 powder and a saboted 45 caliber 300 grain XTP bullet. I've taken whitetail and hogs with mine.

There are traditional muzzleloaders that a fine for hunting. Here's a link to a video showing a doe taken with a flintlock pistol.

Flintlock Pistol Deer Hunt

I hunt small game quite a bit with a .54 cal Plains Pistol I built using light powder charges.

I have a CVA V2. I have hunted two seasons and have taken four deer. My longest shot was maybe forty yards. I like it a lot. It is much easier to clean than my rifle and more accurate.

Loved that. Thanks for sharing it.

Glad you enjoyed it!

Most of us on this forum are into a higher degree of difficulty, or we would not be hunting with handguns in the first place.
That Flintlock Pistol takes it up at least 3 more notches.
One More notch would be an Under Hammer or Side Hammer Pistol.
Two more notch's would be a Traditional Cap Lock Pistol.
The Flintlock Pistol would take it up one more notch in difficulty. Unless you are into Traditional Muzzleloaders you probably have no idea how hard it is to get a flintlock working to the level those boys had theirs operating. To make a flintlock fire instantly like the ones in that video, almost every shot, everything has to be right. I am impressed. I had plans to make an under hammer or side hammer Hunting Pistol for years, and never went forward with the project.
Thank you for sharing.

Bob

Flintlocks definitely take some effort. This post got me thinking about a company that used to offer what looked like a "beefed up" Lyman Plains Pistol. With conicals it was close to 454 Casull fpe IIRC. I did a couple searches but couldn't find their site. With traditional guns popularity seemingly on the decline they may no longer be around.

Using a 45gr charge of Goex FFF and a .530 (224gr) round ball I average 890fps in the Plains Pistol I built. Accuracy at 50 yards is very good. That's around 45ACP power which many people have taken deer with. I prefer a little more power for deer hunting so I doubt I'll ever use it for them. With a 20gr FFF charge at 650fps its been great for small game.

Do you measure Blackhorn 209 by volume or weight?

I hunt with a CVA Optima V2 with a Leupold 2-8x32mm scope. Last year I used 100gr of Tripple 7 pushing a Hornady 240gr xtp. I took a doe with it. I am very pleased with its performance.

I measure by volume.

Most of the Black Powder Substitutes have a Weight Formula to weigh charges listed on their Web Sites. Do a search and see what you find.

I believe Triple Se7ven is listed as 77.7 grains = 100 grains by Volume. I have also seen it listed as 81.4 grains.

My Brass Adjustable Black Powder Measure has built in stops. I believe the closest Stop to 100 grains is at 95 grains of Goex FF Black Powder.
I have an Authentic Hawken 54 that I shoot 110 grains of FF Black Powder in. I have an ancient shell case powder measure that measures 110 grains of FF Black Powder. Not sure but it probably was made from a cut down 47-70 or 45-90 case. It has a small Brass Ring on the head end, and hangs around my neck with my Ted Cash Brass Capper.

Figure out what amount of which ever powder substitute you are going to use, and then make a measure by cutting down your own 45-70 shell case. A cut down shell case will not get out of adjustment.

Discussing this reminded me that I need to check and see if I have a Forster 45 cal. Pilot for my case trimmer. My brother and I just sent in a Midway order this evening. I need to make my own measure up, and with my luck I probably do not have the correct Pilot.

EDIT
Well I just checked, and I do have a 45 Pilot, the wrong one .452, and NOT .458. I need to make a note to get one on the next order.

Bob

I finally took the plunge and bought a pound of Blackhorn 209 to load in my CVA V2 pistol. I took it to the range yesterday during my lunch break and loaded 100 grains behind a Thompson Center bullet which is really a Hornady 240 gr xtp with sabat.

I was surprised when I touched off the first shot to find out that the felt recoil was much more than when I loaded two 50 grain white hot pellets with the same bullet. I have to think that it is a hotter powder.

I was also surprised after shooting nine shots to be able to see thru the breech plug. This powder really burns clean and with less than half of the smoke.

I did not have time to shoot for groups but I did get the gun sighted in 1.5 inches high at 50 yards. I plan to shoot some more next week.

Michael I am sure that you are really impressed after 9 shots. With most other powders you are almost driving the Sabot home on the second shot. The third shot is a real challenge, and you had better have a mark on the ramrod to be sure that you have the Sabot all the way down. With any powder except Blackhorn 209 I clean the barrel after every shot when working with the Optima.
Nine is the number of shots that I have done in a row with Blackhorn 209 also, and the last shot was about as easy to load as the first. I could have kept on shooting, that just happens to be where I quit.
I just wish Blackhorn 209 was cheaper. The Optima V2 is not cheap to shoot at all with the Good Stuff. My last 10 OZ jug was $40 with Tax. A 10 oz. jug has 4375 grains. You only get 62 shots at 70 grains weighed which is approximately a 100 grain Equivalent Load. That makes just the powder $0.65 a shot, then we have a Sabot $0.18, Bullet $0.27, and Shotgun Primer $0.04. That is $1.14 per shot. I plan to keep practicing using up all the other jugs of powder I have, as well as the Pellets.

Bob

This is the first deer that I have killed with a muzzleloading handgun. T/C Encore with 209x50 Custom Shop barrel. This was from October 2015. The loading was 85 grains of 777 FFFg behind a 385 great plains bullet. The buck dropped dead in its tracks at 25 yards. The recoil is equally as traumatic.

That's the best description of recoil I've heard so far.

I hunt from a "1 1/2 man" tree stand...the 1 is for me, the other 1/2 is for the recoil.

I like that!

Congratulations on your first ML Pistol deer kill!

When you light off the Optima with around a 90 grain equivalent load with a 250 grain bullet. You do not need to wonder if it has enough power to kill a deer, moose, elk, or small dinosaur.
I believe the Optima will handle a 150 grain equivalent load and stay together. I can not even imagine how bad the recoil would be with that heavy a load. Brisk would be a serious understatement.

The best I remember, Mark Hampton was telling about shooting a Cape Buffalo with JD's 45-70 Contender years ago. I believe the way he described it was that "it was a toss-up between shooting it again, or letting the Buffalo get him".

Bob

The rifle version can handle 150 grains, so I agree that the handgun version will too. I'm not about to try it, though. I prefer my wrists unbroken.