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Reddot vs. scope and how to use them #189856 02/20/2018 4:55 PM
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short30 Offline OP
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I did a search and did not see a discussion of the topic. I would like the experienced hunters to chime in with which they use and why, limits they impose and how/how much they practice. I have a 14 inch 7mm-08 encore with a reddot and I like the larger view but with no magnification I am not confident past about 30 yards. I put a 2-6x by 32 on a 10 inch 30-30 but the small view and the difficulty aligning my eye seems to erase the magnification advantage. I'd appreciate any knowledge on how to better use either from the experienced hunter perspective. I just acquired a .357 12 inch contender (Mike Bellm is making it a MAX)so I need to decide which direction to go - thanks in advance.


First Handgun Deer: ~1982 8" S&W .38Spl
SW 7.5" 686-7 with Matchdot II
SBHH .45LC 7.5"
Contender G2 .35-30/30 (Bellm), .22LR, .22 Hornet, 25-35
Glock 40 10mm; G21 Poly80 w/ 9 inch barrel (in work)
Re: Reddot vs. scope and how to use them [Re: short30] #189857 02/20/2018 5:31 PM
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karl Offline
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Lots of folks can give good advice here but here are my experiences
I rarely shoot single shots off hand and am lucky to group 6" at 50 yards off hand. I spend a lot of time practicing and figuring out field shooting positions that work with the stands and blinds that I hunt from. This usually involves a bog-pod in some configuration right now. I try to put 500-1000 rounds down range a year on scoped contender/encore platforms. A 22lr or even better a 17hmr barrel are great for this. 17hmr is nice because you can easily stretch out past 100 yards to work on longer range shooting mechanics for cheap.
1) With scopes, proper alignment and a steady rest are critical. Practice helps a lot. I also find that quality glass makes a big difference with making a scope work well. Max range depends on how steady of a rest I have at the time. I routinely shoot 200m at the range off a bench and I am confident of bullet performance (hand load) to double that distance.

2) With a red-dot I have found that dot size and adjust ability of intensity are critical. I also found that I like some of the different reticle styles like the circle-dot ones. Makes it easier to acquire the target faster. With a 2moa dot at low intensity (no bloom or smearing) I can stack shots at 100 yards off a rest. I find this is highly dependent on the target you use. It's only possible for me if you can center the dot on a large target that you can clearly see. It's much harder to try to shoot the corner targets on a large sheet this way. Max range depends on how steady the rest is at the time. I routinely practice at 100 yards with this setup, but consider that close to the max range unless the situation were perfect.

As for field use of the above. I shot a nice buck at 100 yards with the red dot last fall. It was just after sunset and light was fading and it was definitely at the end of functional red dot hunting time for me with the low contrast shot presented. A scope would have given me 15 more minutes of time and much farther range but taken longer to get on target. I've started taking two guns to the stand with different sighting systems for this reason. Sit with the red-dot on your lap and leave the scoped gun beside you.

not knowing how/where you like to hunt, I would suggest that 7mm-08 is begging for a 2.5-8 or 3-12 pistol scope and the 10" 30-30 would work well with a low profile red dot at shots under 100 yards or as a brush gun.

Last edited by karl; 02/20/2018 5:37 PM.
Re: Reddot vs. scope and how to use them [Re: short30] #189858 02/20/2018 5:33 PM
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Whitworth Offline
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Lately I've been using scopes, but prefer red dots in most hunting situations as I think they are superior in low light and frankly way easier to acquire. I always keep both eyes open when using a red dot allowing you to keep the whole animal in view. As far as limitations are concerned, practice, practice, practice. Like any sighting system, getting proficient requires getting really comfortable with the sight. The longest shot I've taken on game with a red dot came out to right around 125 yards, but I prefer getting closer if possible - but that is generally how I like to hunt.


Max Prasac

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Re: Reddot vs. scope and how to use them [Re: short30] #189862 02/20/2018 10:34 PM
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short30 Offline OP
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I appreciate the input so far. I acquired the 7mm-08 encore with the red dot and liked the FOV but the non-magnification took some getting used to and I think the dot was 4 or 6 MOA, cheap BSA...when I got the 30-30 barrel for the same encore frame I put the scope on and tried it the last year or so but I had such a hard time finding the target in a hunting situation I started re-thinking which spawned this post. I mainly hunt in heavily wooded areas so the red dot may be all I need. I am leaning toward a higher quality red dot with intensity adjustments and 2 MOA option for the 357 max. I am planning some hog hunts so I think a little more distance will be warranted. It also sounds like I need a little better quality scope for the 30-30/7mm-08 encore. I really like the 30-30 so the 7mm-08 has sat on the shelf without optics but saving it for larger game if I ever need it. I've added a 2x8 shelf to all my ladder stands to support a bag which helps immensely. Really sounds like I just need a lot more trigger time. Not a bad problem to have.


First Handgun Deer: ~1982 8" S&W .38Spl
SW 7.5" 686-7 with Matchdot II
SBHH .45LC 7.5"
Contender G2 .35-30/30 (Bellm), .22LR, .22 Hornet, 25-35
Glock 40 10mm; G21 Poly80 w/ 9 inch barrel (in work)
Re: Reddot vs. scope and how to use them [Re: short30] #189863 02/21/2018 1:00 AM
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racksmasher1 Offline
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All of my single shots are scoped,all but a couple of my revolvers have a Ultra Dot Matchdot on them, only because i?m A woods hunter , and I need the red dot at low light, the 2 MOA dot helps a lot, hope this helps, 100 yards is pretty much my max range with the red dot, hope this helps.

Re: Reddot vs. scope and how to use them [Re: racksmasher1] #189866 02/21/2018 3:42 AM
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Raptortrapper Offline
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I used a Burris red dot once, for about 4 shots. My 460 S&W blew it up. Never used anything but Leupold scopes since then, and never had a failure. Put a Leupold on that same 460 with 4 Warne rings, and it never failed me. Because of that experience, it's either iron sights, or a Leupold for me. On EVERYTHING.


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Re: Reddot vs. scope and how to use them [Re: Raptortrapper] #189867 02/21/2018 12:25 PM
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Randy M Offline
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I don?t discriminate and like both hehe. Red dot on my G40 and Taurus RB. Scope on my encore. Realistically my eyes only allow up to 75 yards on Texas whitetail. But then again the deer where I hunt are more like over sized rabbits. I could probably stretch that out to 100 on a man sized animal.


The meat won't fry if the lead don't fly.
Re: Reddot vs. scope and how to use them [Re: Randy M] #190223 03/08/2018 8:28 PM
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short30 Offline OP
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My 2-7x32 is a Simmons and it appears very finicky about the exact distance to the eye. It is hard to find the target. Went to Cabela's and looked through a Burris and it seems much easier but at a much greater cost. I may have to save my pennies and get a better quality scope as I like the magnification. I dug out the old BSA reddot. It is an older 42mm but has 11 size settings so that is nice. I think I will mount it on the 357Max to start with then maybe move to the better quality handgun scope or put that on the 30-30.


First Handgun Deer: ~1982 8" S&W .38Spl
SW 7.5" 686-7 with Matchdot II
SBHH .45LC 7.5"
Contender G2 .35-30/30 (Bellm), .22LR, .22 Hornet, 25-35
Glock 40 10mm; G21 Poly80 w/ 9 inch barrel (in work)
Re: Reddot vs. scope and how to use them [Re: short30] #190225 03/08/2018 8:30 PM
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Whitworth Offline
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 Originally Posted By: short30
It is an older 42mm but has 11 size settings so that is nice. I think I will mount it on the 357Max to start with then maybe move to the better quality handgun scope or put that on the 30-30.


Size settings or brightness settings?


Max Prasac

Semper Fidelis

BIG IRON: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6aXjMH5C30

Gun Digest TV's Modern Shooter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGo-KMpXPpA&t=7s

Re: Reddot vs. scope and how to use them [Re: Whitworth] #190241 03/09/2018 2:33 PM
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short30 Offline OP
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Not sure but the current version says brightness when googled. The brighter the dot the larger it seems. Can't wait for Mr. Bellm to do his magic or is it Maxic.


First Handgun Deer: ~1982 8" S&W .38Spl
SW 7.5" 686-7 with Matchdot II
SBHH .45LC 7.5"
Contender G2 .35-30/30 (Bellm), .22LR, .22 Hornet, 25-35
Glock 40 10mm; G21 Poly80 w/ 9 inch barrel (in work)
Re: Reddot vs. scope and how to use them [Re: short30] #190610 03/18/2018 7:37 PM
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billa Offline
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Here comes an old timers 2 cents.....
Let?s talk practice and shooting in general before we get into optics. It?s my strong opinion that an individual should train themselves in basic marksmanship with a rimfire or a pellet gun before they take to the field with a hunting class centerfire. Additionally I believe that skills should be developed with traditional iron sights. A shooter should be able to shoot a tight group with iron sights at 10 to 25 yards with an air gun or a rimfire. If you cannot do this you are probably not ready for optics.
Sight alignment, a steady hold, trigger control and follow through.
In fact these skills can be honed by dry firing. After almost 50 years as a shooter I still dry fire on a blank wall with iron sights to keep sharp.
Ok let?s assume you have this down and you can shoot a ragged hole offhand at 15 yards with your favorite pea shooter. Now start stretching it out a bit. Try 25 yards then 50 yards. First from a solid rest then from a field position or shooting sticks. You should be whacking soda cans or clay birds most of the time at these distances with a good 22. Again if you can?t do that - shooting a big gun with optics will be more work than fun.

Ok I will get off my soap box and back to the topic.

How much practice - when I was younger and developing my skills I would shoot air guns and dry fire almost every day. I would shoot at the range an average of 4 to 6 times a month plus I would shoot maybe 2 IHMSA matches a month. I know this sounds like a lot to some but you asked. There were a few years when I was deeply immersed in competitive IHMSA that I did much more. This was all iron sights out to 200 meters with CF and 100 yards with rimfire. I do shoot less now but if you want to get good there are no shortcut to practice, practice, practice.

Now you ask why is this old gray beard harping about shooting with open sights on a topic about optics. Well simply put, everyone I know that shoots well with open sights shoots well with a dot or a scope.
If you have never owned a scope I would suggest starting with a dot sight. As far as scopes go, I suggest starting with a quality 2x. Once you are comfy with that you can work up in xpower.

Here are my preferred big game, hunting situation gun / optic limits. These are for me at the present time. Each of us are different based on skill, hunting terrain and equipment.

Iron sights - 50 yards. May stretch to 80 or more but it?s likely I have a scope if I am expecting a shot beyond 50.

Scopes - 2x on a 44 mag out to 100 maybe 135 yards.
2x6 On a Contender or my 460 X frame out to 200. Farther on varmints.

I will say that irons and a red dot are easier to hold and shoot quickly offhand. Even after 35 years of hunting with a scope.

I shoot red dots but have not hunted with them. As my eyesight goes with age I will likely replace the irons with dot sights.

Sorry that was such a long trip for such a short answer. But if your objective is to master shooting a handgun with optics this is the recipe that worked for me.


"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,... "
Matthew 28:19

Handgun hunter since 1979 - haven't used a rifle since!
HHI member #992, NRA, SCI.
Re: Reddot vs. scope and how to use them [Re: billa] #190691 03/19/2018 11:39 PM
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junebug Offline
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Like anything else that requires hand eye coordination using a scoped pistol gets easier the more you do it.Use the lower powers to start with as they have a wider field of view and do not show your shaking so bad [which freaks some people out but you shake with open sights too] ,it just is not as apparent.You do not have to shoot anything,just practice finding objects in the scope at varying distances any time you can. Look over top of the scope ,keep both eyes open, concentrate on the target, and bring the gun up into your line of vision keeping your focus on the target. A bit of practice is all it takes.We do the same thing with Binoculars when finding game in the woods concentrate on the game and bring the binos into your line of sight. Same thing with the scope.

Last edited by junebug; 03/19/2018 11:53 PM.

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