So I was out at dads yesterday and loaded up some 357 max with 180 great xtps. Shooting 24.5 grs lil gun for a fuzz over 2000 fps. Seemed to shoot real good at least left and right at 50. Group was a little under an inch wide but was stringing about 4 inches vertically. At the moment I am blaming myself I didn't have a good rest by any means and believe the lack of a good rest and possible small changes in grip are what caused the stringing especially since my left to right was so good. Just wondering if anyone else has a similar experience my standard deviation was 55 fps which should not be enough to cause that much difference at 50

I am interested in what other folks have to say here, but I often encounter stringing and think about it the same way you do. If I focus on consistent grip and consistent down pressure on the forend of the gun then it seems to get better.

CONSISTENT GRIP! ,no down pressure,let the bags hold it,same placement on the bags just in front of the trigger guard,straight to the rear trigger squeeze,follow thru.

I agree with junebug, just let it rest, no intentional down pressure. A 2000 fps load with a 180 XTP is going to come up off the bags. I am pretty sure the vertical stringing is grip & rest related.

Bob R

AND a consistent crimp on a consistent case length!

That's what I thought that my form was causing an issue. The thing is super jumpy it's a 10 inch octagon with that load you really got to hang on or you risk the whole gun ending up on the ground behind you..... I didn't even have bags I was shooting off a lead sled turned sideways with my sweater laying on it..... I would agree with the crimp if my deviation was higher or the range was farther but my deviation was acceptable to me and I can't crimp with the bullet set out that far my goal is 2.220 and I'm just barely off the lands.

WOW a 10 Inch Octagon. A buddy of mine had one in 30-30. It was the hardest recoiling Contender I ever fired. Unpleasant was an under statement.
BushytailBasher you would enjoy shooting a 357 Maximum a lot more in a 13-15 inch Heavy Barrel version. That thing has to be brutal.

Bob R

Bullets not seated the same depth can cause vertical stringing and the other is the rest that (bag) is soft. Bench rest shooters are your example here,, Use a Hard or fully packed bag on the front rest. Shifting sand bags will cause you problems.
For checking accuracy it is best to have the butt on a rest as well.

FWIW With my grip hand, it never leaves the pistol when shooting for accuracy test. Revolvers are easier than the Contender but still possible.

Have you tried backing down off that charge? Don't understand the reason for that high of charge with Lil Gun and would ask consideration of using 4227 for a real accurate load. Even if you dropped down to 1400 FPS, that would get the job done for most things.

That seems like a really hot load. It's impressive, but would be interesting in that barrel! I believe my load was doing 1800+ with that bullet in a 10" bull barrel and wasn't too bad. It seemed like an effective load on the whitetail I took with it.

Well where I'm at we are limited to straight wall cartridges in pistol or rifle so I'm trying to bring all the range I can out of it I believe I could load hotter but don't see any reason.... A few spots I like to hunt have shots all the way out to 200 and if like to have plenty of smack at that range and I just can't load my 45/70 stout enough for that trajectory.... The little booger is a handful have toear gloves to protect my fingers from the trigger guard and shooting it a lot is rough on the wrist as far as actual recoil it's not bad it's just snappy. Up there it should have said c.o.a.l. is 2.220 I'm certainly not hunting for more velocity at this point. And I didn't have any 4227 since last place I looked it was 10 dollars more a can than pistol powders. I've still got a little space in the case and I think 4227 would fill it out a little better. Last year I was shooting the 200 ftx at 1800 and it shot great at 50 couldn't even tell you fired more than one bullet but it was to heavy and by 100 yards accuracy fell apart since my barrel is a slow twist. I was shooting off Cornhole bags last year and that seemed to work real well but squirrels ate them.... I was really thinking my issue was grip and rest the shots that didn't string we're in a spot about 3/4 of an inch though which is where most of the shots went and I'm sure it's be smaller with a better rest.... Gun season starts the last week of this month here so we will see how that bullet works at that speed real soon. Though I'm going to try to get a little time behind the 450 Bushmaster upper dad ordered for the ars. Good shooting guys

Bobroach You really got to focus when shooting it lol I don't doubt a bigger heavier barrel would be a lot better but I've had this barrel for years and just opened it up to max last year maybe eventually I'll be able to afford a bigger one but right now I'm lucky to buy bullets since I'm the only one working.... Childcare is just to expensive and untrustworthy for it to be worth my wife going back to work before my son starts school

JDK my bullets are seated really long since it's throated for a different bullet sure it's a rocket but the cases just fall out when you tip it back. 2.220 is the length when I get a chance I'll get a pic but it's well past the second cannelure on the 180.

My vote's on your grip. You may be unintentionally pressing it downward into the front bag. I've done that before, and it tends to cause a few problems.

Well I had a sweater for my front rest also so it was pretty squishy and variable I put blame on my grip just wanted to see if everyone agreed with me

A good rest definately helps.....and it dont have to be fancy to be good.

Did your grip snag on anything under recoil?

While the grip can be an issue,,, I want to ask you to look at this and evaluate it for your self. Consider backing off the excess powder load and go back to max load by the book, and give yourself a good crimp on these bullets. The start again at 50yd, then 100 and 150 or jump to 200.
Also have you do shooting at 50 and 100yds with this load? reason I ask is sometimes when a load is too hot for the bullet, The bullet begins to act erratic, and instead of groups you get flyers or a pattern.
I just feel that a good dose of AA1680 or some 4227 and a good crimp would help you out. A lot of Silhouette shooters have used that caliber for good success on Rams at 200yds. I use to have a 357 Max in a Ruger revolver and I used the 180 gr XTP and 4227 for accurate loads. A good friend just had to own it and he still uses the same loads.
I understand your reasoning on the No Crimp and heavy powder dose, but sometimes it simply does not work, especially for pistols. We do not have the luxury of nodes that rifle shooters do. Even some of our bullets have little or no BC.
YOu have chosen a good accurate bullet and I want to see you succeed with your Hunt.

Try 22gr of the LiL Gun. You can crimp them, and just try three at 100 and OR 3 at 200.

https://matchgrademachine.com/encore-contender-357-magnum-maximum-load-development-results/

I'm seated over an 1/8 inch longer than mgm loads data and I'm running less powder I've already backed it off some I really doubt I'm too hot and mgm says no crimp as well and Mike Bell said there is no reason to crimp also so I really don't think it's my charge.... I started at 22 and it was stringing then also from 22 to 26 they were all stringing and my SD for every load three shots was 50 or under which isn't enough to cause any noticable stringing at 50 yds and for every group fired it was never more that a 1/2 inch wide which is astonishing since I had a absolutely awful rest

I don't think it snagged on anything

except maybe my knuckles but since it was a sweater on my lead sled turned sideways I really doubt I had a consistent pressure for each shot which was what I believed to be the culprit as well

I reload for a number of cartridges that I shoot in the Contender, including the 357 Max. I do all of my Contender load accuracy trials at 100 yards and I've never seen stringing in any of the loads, but I thought I might offer an opinion anyway. As far as the grip goes, I have hands that are on the small side and I had to train myself to not scoot my hand slightly around the grip so that my finger would cover more of the trigger. I took me quite a while to remember to do that for every shot, but that really helped with the overall accuracy. If you've been shooting the Contender for any length of time then you've most likely settled on a grip that is right for you. Having said that, you might want to explicitly verify your grip before each shot the next time you take the Max to the range. In terms of the shooting rest, I make sure the contender is snugged up to the rest for each shot such that the trigger guard is close to, but not touching the rest.

I had been shooting the 357 Herrett in a 10 in. barrel for about 30 years when I let the enthusiasm of some of the members of this forum coax me into buying a 12 in. 357 Max barrel, which I picked up from MGM. I've had that barrel over a year, but I just got around to trying out some 158 gr loads this past summer. My goal is to see if I can get both a good 158 gr load and a 180 gr load working for this barrel. I started with the 158 gr XTP-FP loads and I haven't yet loaded any 180 gr loads. Although the 158 gr loads may not be of any value to you, I'll share some of the information about the trials. I used 4 different powders, including Lil'Gun, and one thing I noticed about Lil'Gun is that it didn't show the stability that I wanted to see - it is possible that I just didn't reach the right amount of powder with Lil'Gun or that perhaps it needs a hotter primer. I used Starline new brass trimmed to 1.596 in., Rem 7 1/2 primers, and a COAL of 1.962 in. with the XTP-FP. I also applied a moderate taper crimp to each cartridge. Note that I did not check for accuracy with these loads - I wanted to see which powder(s) would get me to the expected velocity (around 2100 fps) while producing a relatively consistent burn of the powder, as judged by the extreme spread. From these results I will select the top two powders and then begin accuracy trials. Anyway, I fired 5 rounds with each load, allowing the barrel to cool after each 5 rounds. Below is the full Lil'Gun data, followed only by the top load for the other 3 powders. The data is arranged as powder / extreme spread / avg. velocity. (The loads shown were safe in my Contender, but start low and work up.)

Lil'Gun 21.5 gr / 325 fps / 1939 fps
Lil'Gun 22.5 gr / 251 fps / 1945 fps
Lil'Gun 23.5 gr / 156 fps / 1957 fps
Lil'Gun 24.0 gr / 79 fps / 1929 fps
Lil'Gun 24.5 gr / 125 fps / 1953 fps
H110 24.5 gr / 26 fps / 2079 fps
300MP 25.5 gr / 18 fps / 2160 fps
Enforcer 21.5 gr / 64 fps / 2162 fps

The Lil'Gun just did not show any consistency in the 5 loads that I tried. I will continue the 158 gr trials for accuracy using H110 and 300MP, and then I'll start over again with the same 4 powders with the 180 gr XTP.

For your 180 gr XTP stringing load, I might suggest that you drop a couple of grains of powder (for the sake of safety) and at the same time seat the bullets deeper into the brass - you don't need to seat all the way to the first crimp ring. If that load proves safe but you still get stringing then I'd suggest to either continue to increase seating depth or slowly add a bit more powder. The increased seating depth may help the Lil' Gun to burn a little more consistently. The 10 in. 357 Herrett barrel I owned had such a long throat that I could seat 180 gr bullets so that they barely entered the brass, and they still wouldn't contact the lands. However, I always seated the bullets deeper into the brass and never had a problem with accuracy even though the bullets would take a fairly large jump just to get to the lands.

Every other lil gun load I've used loaded the same has been extremely accurate.... Lil gun with a 200 ftx at that range would do 1/4 inch or better 5 shot groups so I can't see it changing that much.... I have however had eandom stringing here and there with the 357 max barrel and I'm thinking it could likely be traced to an inconsistent rest applying varying amounts of pressure to the gun and my hands exacerbated by how very light the thing is... Safety wise I'm well under what could be considered dangerous that I am sure of and my experience with lil gun is that it likes fairly hot loads best.

It has been my experience that Lil Gun works better with heavier bullets in .35 caliber pistols.

180 is the lightest I've ever shot since it was rechambered the 200 ftx was extremely accurate but only out to 50 yards..... I just don't have the twist rate to stabilize it any farther out unfortunately.... Every load I have put through this gun has had some stringing at one point or another though and all I can come up with is I haven't always had a good consistent rest and since the little booger is a handful I think in trying to not send it flying backwards over my head again I might bear down a little on it which is what I believe causes stringing when I have a poor rest.