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What if?? #197417 01/28/2019 9:56 PM
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jamesfromjersey Offline OP
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If this was you holding the flashlight in your left hand... what handgun would you be aiming in your right???


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Re: What if?? [Re: jamesfromjersey] #197418 01/28/2019 10:12 PM
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Paul_H Offline
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480 SRH. It's what I've been carrying as my bear defense for the past ~15 years.

I also have a greater appreciation for cabins than tents, more of an aging thing than a bear fear thing.

Re: What if?? [Re: Paul_H] #197419 01/28/2019 10:17 PM
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REDHAWK1954 Offline
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My 44 mag 5.5 inch Redhawk.


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Re: What if?? [Re: REDHAWK1954] #197421 01/29/2019 12:15 AM
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sw282 Offline
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BAZOOKA

Re: What if?? [Re: sw282] #197423 01/29/2019 1:01 AM
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A 1911, that?s usually what I carry.

Re: What if?? [Re: sw282] #197424 01/29/2019 1:05 AM
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MY PERSONAL DEFENSE UP CLOSE BEAR GUN IS MY LINEBAUGH 5 1/2 INCH RUGER REDHAWK 45 COLT. THIS SPRING I AM GOING TO USE SOME CUSTOM FURY 260gr FP FMJ's OR SOME SWIFT 265gr A-FRAMES. WILL PROBABLY LOAD THEM TO THE 1,300 - 1,400 fps RANGE (MAYBE LESS), LOOKING FOR GOOD ACCURACY AND CONTROLABILITY AS I HOPE TO BRAIN THE BRUIN BEFORE IT GETS ON ME.


"ADAPT OR DIE". I USE ALL CAPS, NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS AN OLD HABIT FROM MY ARMY DAYS, PLUS IT IS EASIER TO TYPE AND READ.
Re: What if?? [Re: sw282] #197426 01/29/2019 1:08 AM
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jamesfromjersey Offline OP
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 Originally Posted By: sw282
BAZOOKA


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"I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
Re: What if?? [Re: jamesfromjersey] #197429 01/29/2019 2:30 AM
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wheeler45 Offline
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Kimber 1911 .45 because it is always with me.


I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. Phil. 4:13
Re: What if?? [Re: wheeler45] #197430 01/29/2019 2:44 AM
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Flashlight would be in my right hand ... Smith 69 in the left ... lefties just gotta screw things up!!


PsTaN

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"Hold your horses, the elephants are coming, and out stamped Alabama"
Re: What if?? [Re: PsTaN] #197432 01/29/2019 2:57 AM
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grayghost Offline
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Most likely my 629 Mountain Gun.

Re: What if?? [Re: grayghost] #197434 01/29/2019 3:24 AM
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Ruger Alaskan 44 mag or custom 5" SRH 44 mag.

Re: What if?? [Re: ruger4570] #197437 01/29/2019 10:15 AM
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Subsciber Offline
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Bear Spray

Re: What if?? [Re: Subsciber] #197442 01/29/2019 11:58 AM
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98Redline Offline
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480R SRH in my left hand, one of my 1000 lumen LED lights in my right and probably a gigantic pile of something else in my sleeping bag.

Re: What if?? [Re: Subsciber] #197446 01/29/2019 2:27 PM
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Whitworth Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Subsciber
Bear Spray


Do you really want to fill your tent with bear spray? :-)

One of my .500s...


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Re: What if?? [Re: Whitworth] #197449 01/29/2019 3:10 PM
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Since we're 'what iffn' I'd used my 5" .457GNR Ruger Bisley Blackhawk by Reeder.


It's not the gun, but the man behind it.

Sheriff Russell Cottle, Ret.
USMC; 1967-1970; Vietnam-'68-'69
Re: What if?? [Re: Russell] #197450 01/29/2019 4:43 PM
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I'd rather fill my tent with bear spray(which has been proven more effective than a gun) than have my tent turned into toilet paper by the bear after he reduces me to bear poop.

Re: What if?? [Re: Subsciber] #197452 01/29/2019 4:59 PM
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Bear spray has mixed results of effectiveness. The problem is by the time you discover you have a bear that it's not effective on, it's too late. A good handgun properly used is very effective. With a bear at bad breath distance, I'm launching lead.

Re: What if?? [Re: Paul_H] #197453 01/29/2019 5:15 PM
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Jeff460 Offline
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If you are intent on something and very enraged, a spray will not stop your advance at close distance. Lead, on the other hand, is very effective at close distance when launched at a fast velocity, in thwarting an advancing predator. Both the animal kind and the human kind.
I would use my 460 S&W or 500 S&W revolvers with hard cast bullets.

Re: What if?? [Re: Subsciber] #197454 01/29/2019 5:34 PM
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Whitworth Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Subsciber
I'd rather fill my tent with bear spray(which has been proven more effective than a gun) than have my tent turned into toilet paper by the bear after he reduces me to bear poop.


It has not proven more effective than a gun. There have been a number of studies about bear spray effectiveness, but I suspect the results depend on who is paying for the study (traditionally). Also it is very dependent on environmental circumstances, including wind. Even when the circumstances are perfect, it's still hit or miss. Guns are hit or miss as well -- you hit or you miss, but when you hit, I personally like my chances better than relying on what amounts to a condiment. Sorry, but in a tent (or outside) I'm going to rely on one of my .50 caliber handguns to get the job done. JMHO.


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Re: What if?? [Re: 98Redline] #197455 01/29/2019 6:09 PM
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 Originally Posted By: 98Redline
480R SRH in my left hand, one of my 1000 lumen LED lights in my right and probably a gigantic pile of something else in my sleeping bag.


Hahahahaha! That's great!


Max Prasac

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Re: What if?? [Re: Whitworth] #197458 01/29/2019 8:23 PM
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Normally no wind in a tent. You are right that guns @ 3 feet have mixed results. I m not able to hit the central nervous system in the middle of the night even @ that distance. I've seen spray work and guns fail. I still believe if in a tent and awakened in the middle of the night your best chance of being coherent and effectively finding any device you would be best served with spray, but then again you may sleep lighter than I do and are a better marksman. Thanks for your reply though.

Re: What if?? [Re: Subsciber] #197461 01/29/2019 9:53 PM
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An interesting and all too real scenario.

At my stage of life I'm not too interested in the "Tacticool" look. However one thing law enforcement and the military have learnt over the last couple of decades, is the critical value of weapon mounted lights. Apart from filling sleeping bag, stress and shock will cause loss of fine visual acuity and all sorts of other bad reactions. Its nice to know you have both hands on your weapon and that the center of your light beam is close enough to your point of impact. Many modern semi-autos already feature an accessory rail but only a few revolvers. This is something we should start experimenting with and possibly make standard practice were dangerous game may be encountered.

As for bear spray, most studies I've read indicate a lower effectiveness than a firearm. A Canadian guide I met detailed how several of his colleagues over the years had been hospitalized from inhaling the stuff when the conditions weren't ideal. In his opinion they were hospitalized longer than those actually mauled.

Re: What if?? [Re: Walkingthemup] #197463 01/29/2019 10:04 PM
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And in the confines of a tent, I don?t want to spray that stuff.....


Max Prasac

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Re: What if?? [Re: grayghost] #197465 01/29/2019 11:37 PM
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Pa. Mike Offline
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I would be holding my Freedom Arms .475 Linebaugh full of Buffalo Bore 420 grain Hard Cast. After I pulled the trigger I would be holding a bandage against my forehead where the front sight just found it's usual mark !

Re: What if?? [Re: Paul_H] #197467 01/30/2019 3:32 AM
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 Originally Posted By: Paul_H
Bear spray has mixed results of effectiveness. The problem is by the time you discover you have a bear that it's not effective on, it's too late. A good handgun properly used is very effective. With a bear at bad breath distance, I'm launching lead.


I am a fan of bear spray, but I have to agree, in this situation I would be shooting.


"If you are going to go through all the trouble to put a hole in something, why not make it a big one?"
Re: What if?? [Re: BBwheelgunner] #197470 01/30/2019 10:20 AM
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About 30yrs ago I met Larry Kelly @ a handgun hunt in AL. It was a 3day hunt and during the course of time I asked him about the story of a bear trying to break into a cabin in which his guide and he were riding out a storm. Anyway he said the guide(using a 375 rifle) and he using a 44mag fired numerous shots into the determined bear. This was about the time bear spray was getting more commonly used. I asked if he thought spray would have made a difference. His reply was " I wished we had it and I think it would have been a better result, but I don't know." Max, you make my point for me when you say you don't want to be in the tent with bear spray. Guess what? Neither does the bear.

Re: What if?? [Re: Subsciber] #197471 01/30/2019 12:07 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Subsciber
About 30yrs ago I met Larry Kelly @ a handgun hunt in AL. It was a 3day hunt and during the course of time I asked him about the story of a bear trying to break into a cabin in which his guide and he were riding out a storm. Anyway he said the guide(using a 375 rifle) and he using a 44mag fired numerous shots into the determined bear. This was about the time bear spray was getting more commonly used. I asked if he thought spray would have made a difference. His reply was " I wished we had it and I think it would have been a better result, but I don't know." Max, you make my point for me when you say you don't want to be in the tent with bear spray. Guess what? Neither does the bear.


That was also the incident that made Larry realize that 240 grain JHPs weren?t getting it done and switched his focus on heavier bullets for the .44 that would penetrate. Had his revolver been stoked with more effective loads, that bear would have died in the cabin.

Trust me when I say that you don?t want to be in a confined space the size of a closet and touch that off.


Max Prasac

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Re: What if?? [Re: Whitworth] #197472 01/30/2019 12:45 PM
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I DO NOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT BEAR SPRAY, BUT IN AN ENCLOSED AREA THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THE BRUIN WILL JUST EXIT THE WAY HE CAME IN, AND WHEN HE OR SHE STARTS REACTING TO THE SPRAY, AND THRASHING AROUND IN A SMALL TENT AREA, WILL YOU BE IN THE WAY? MANY HUMAN DEATHS BY ANIMALS RESULT, NOT FROM ATTACKS, BUT FROM JUST BEING IN THE WAY. AS WAS STATED EARLIER BY ANOTHER POSTER, "LAUNCHING LEAD" WOULD BE MY CHOICE.


"ADAPT OR DIE". I USE ALL CAPS, NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS AN OLD HABIT FROM MY ARMY DAYS, PLUS IT IS EASIER TO TYPE AND READ.
Re: What if?? [Re: 45MAN] #197474 01/30/2019 3:15 PM
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Yea, well then when we discussed it he NEVER mentioned heavier bullets. Puzzling. Besides its speculative.

Re: What if?? [Re: Subsciber] #197477 01/30/2019 3:49 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Subsciber
Yea, well then when we discussed it he NEVER mentioned heavier bullets. Puzzling. Besides its speculative.


Actually not speculative. I interviewed Ken Kelly a number of years ago and he said that his dad experienced core separation and only a few inches of penetration from that load and it was the catalyst for exploring heavier/better bullets for a handgun.


Max Prasac

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Gun Digest TV's Modern Shooter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGo-KMpXPpA&t=7s

Re: What if?? [Re: Subsciber] #197478 01/30/2019 3:50 PM
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Ive been hit with OC Spray when in Law Enforcement... There is NO WAY ON GODS GREEN EARTH I would spray bear spray in an enclosed tent!!! Regardless the circumstances I would absolutely chose bleeding ear drums and swollen wrist over spray!!!

Re: What if?? [Re: Subsciber] #197481 01/30/2019 4:17 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Subsciber
Yea, well then when we discussed it he NEVER mentioned heavier bullets. Puzzling. Besides its speculative.

Larry Kelly and JD Jones responded to a need for heavier bullets with the 300gr and 320gr SSK truncated cone designs. That's not speculation. A 240gr JHP design of 30yrs ago is not a proper bear bullet and that ain't speculation either. We heard similar stories of the 265gr Hornady failure on bears. Both are cases of the wrong bullet for the job. Not evidence that handguns are inadequate.

I used to have to carry dog spray as part of my job and I used it several times. Same chemical used as bear spray, just in much smaller quantities. Not only did I have critters that did not even respond to the stuff but I also got a few whiffs myself. There is no way in hell that I would discharge bear spray, with the volume of chemicals released and the degree of atomization, inside a friggin' tent. No sir, gimme a big sixgun. Reminds me of this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8IGDIujijQ


Re: What if?? [Re: Craig44] #197483 01/30/2019 5:13 PM
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Had a coworker coming back from fishing that had his pepper spray go off when he was getting into his truck, somehow the safety tab got knocked off and when he sat down and started buckling up he launched the can. We laugh about it now, but it was not funny.

Pepper spray in a tent and you'll be completely incapacitated. Don't know about anyone else, but in a up close nasty encounter with a bear, I don't want to be completely incapacitated.

Bear spray has it's place, primarily areas where you aren't allowed to carry a firearm.

There are no guarantees, but given the choice between something that might not work even in an ideal situation, i.e. bear spray, and a large bore revolver with heavy for caliber bullets that will work I'll take the second choice.

Re: What if?? [Re: Paul_H] #197486 01/30/2019 5:58 PM
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One time in the ER i treated 6 cops and the perp with a bad pepper spray wind situation. It was bad. A few cops had bad pulmonary reactions to it. The perp was high on meth and was mildly annoyed. You would be high to fire that off in a tent. When it comes to protection i use guns that work, not have nice lines. I have srh both regular and alaskans with night sights and swift aframes or copper solids. This i have confidence in and have no questions of power and efficacy. More and more evidence coming out that bear spray recommendations are due to biologists not wanting dead bears and anecdotal evidence bc most people cant shoot let alone shoot in a stressful situation. Practice practice practice and ise reliable good bullets of an ample caliber and a handgun becomes your best friend in that tent.

Re: What if?? [Re: tradmark] #197489 01/30/2019 6:42 PM
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If you don't shoot the same bear in the same places with the "heavier" bullets then it is speculation. I would want bear spray because it sprays a field and probable results would be better. FYI I don't care if the bear survives or not. Also the effectiveness of the spray on the Kelly bear is speculative too. I didn't talk to the son I talked to the man.

Re: What if?? [Re: Subsciber] #197490 01/30/2019 6:54 PM
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Zee Offline
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Ruger SRH Toklat in .454 casull w/ 350gr WFN Matt?s Bullets


"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
Re: What if?? [Re: Subsciber] #197492 01/30/2019 7:16 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Subsciber
If you don't shoot the same bear in the same places with the "heavier" bullets then it is speculation. I would want bear spray because it sprays a field and probable results would be better. FYI I don't care if the bear survives or not. Also the effectiveness of the spray on the Kelly bear is speculative too. I didn't talk to the son I talked to the man.


Seems he left a lot out of the story - you know, vital stuff like the performance of his bullets. Yet, no one thought to ask him about that? I would think that is the first question, like why a .375 H&H and a .44 Mag at point blank range didn?t produce a more definitive result. Call me crazy.


Max Prasac

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BIG IRON: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6aXjMH5C30

Gun Digest TV's Modern Shooter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGo-KMpXPpA&t=7s

Re: What if?? [Re: Whitworth] #197493 01/30/2019 7:39 PM
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Careful Whit, you?re starting to sound like me. You?ll be thinking scientific next.

😁

:joke:


"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
Re: What if?? [Re: Zee] #197494 01/30/2019 7:56 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Zee
Careful Whit, you?re starting to sound like me. You?ll be thinking scientific next.

😁

:joke:




Max Prasac

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BIG IRON: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6aXjMH5C30

Gun Digest TV's Modern Shooter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGo-KMpXPpA&t=7s

Re: What if?? [Re: Zee] #197495 01/30/2019 7:59 PM
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Well in all honesty I'm recalling a brief conversation from 30yrs ago, but I remember it pretty clearly. Really don't want to seem argumentative but most responses kind confirm my point in that nobody wants to be in a confined area with spray even a bear. I know you have written several books so you have concrete opinions on some matters but I believe I've shot as many bears in a tent in the middle of the night as you have. I pretty much know I can survive exposure to bear spray but a mauling not so much. In my second response I stated UNLESS the CNS was hit the outcome might not be so assured but believe based on documented accounts that spray would work better. There is a reason they call it repellent.

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