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358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber #202769 10/20/2019 6:31 PM
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I've made it to the point where today I dropped my first power charge and seated a 220 grain Speer Flat Point into the case. I began by seating the bullet to the bottom of the neck, as recommended. The round would not chamber. I slowly seated it deeper and deeper with no effect. The round sticks out of the chamber maybe an 1\8" to 1\4". I found I could push the round in a tad further with my finger, but then had to force extraction. I don't see rifling Mark's on the ogive, it looks like I see a slight ring mark maybe. The case mouth did seem rougher after this ordeal.

I'm at a loss. The formed cases alone seemed to fit perfectly and the action closed easily and completely. If I had to guess, I'd say seating the bullet into the case expanded the neck enough to keep it from chambering fully. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks!


John

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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: JDK] #202770 10/20/2019 7:05 PM
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More info: The formed cases measure .379 at the outside of the neck. The loaded round measures .385 on the outside of the neck. I'm going to try backing the seating die body out more to see if I could be crushing the case a bit. I read about that possibility, so it's worth a shot.


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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: JDK] #202772 10/20/2019 7:41 PM
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No good. It's not the bullet length or die, it's the neck diameter. I backed the die out and tried again. With a bullet just seated maybe 1\4", the outside neck diameter grows from .379 to .385 and appears to be just a hair too big for the chamber's neck dimensions. The bullets measure a perfect .358. Unless something else comes up, I'll email JD and see what he says.

Last edited by JDK; 10/20/2019 7:44 PM.

John

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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: JDK] #202775 10/20/2019 9:10 PM
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Try taking out the inside of the sizing die and running it back through after loaded.

Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: Embalmer883] #202777 10/20/2019 9:57 PM
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It was worth a shot, but that round wouldn't even consider going into the neck portion of that die. Obviously, the neck is just too tight. I just don't know if the chamber is to tight or the brass is too thick. I even trimmed the cases to a uniform 2.23" ,mainly to clean up the case mouths.


John

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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: JDK] #202779 10/20/2019 9:59 PM
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WHO CHAMBERED THE BARREL? MAYBE THE CHAMBER IN THE NECK AREA IS TOO TIGHT?


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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: 45MAN] #202780 10/20/2019 10:02 PM
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ALSO, USE A VLD INSIDE NECK CHAMFER TOOL BEFORE SEATING THE BULLET.


"ADAPT OR DIE". I USE ALL CAPS, NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS AN OLD HABIT FROM MY ARMY DAYS, PLUS IT IS EASIER TO TYPE AND READ.
Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: 45MAN] #202782 10/20/2019 10:23 PM
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It is a newly SSK rechambered factory TC barrel. I chamfered inside and out. It's a mystery at this point.


John

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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: JDK] #202785 10/20/2019 11:31 PM
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Pa. Mike Offline
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I think your neck was cut too tight. I had three separate SSK barrels which had to have the neck opened up slightly and they shot fine after that. I would send it back to SSK and ask them to examine it. They have a good reputation for standing by their work. Just my two cents worth.

Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: Pa. Mike] #202787 10/21/2019 12:18 AM
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I believe you may be correct. I sent JD an email. I have no doubt they?ll get me fixed either way! Thanks for the info guys!


John

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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: JDK] #202801 10/21/2019 5:41 PM
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You could also use Cerrosafe to do a quick chamber cast to measure exactly what the chamber looks like.

Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: JDK] #202809 10/21/2019 9:28 PM
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What brand/headstamp of brass are you using? I believe all of the original measurements were set up using R-P brass. If the neck thickness of your brass is more than that of the R-P 444 Marlin brass, I would say that is the issue.

Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: Mech 8] #202810 10/21/2019 10:43 PM
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I'm using Starline. If you get a chance, could you measure the outside neck of a loaded round? If you have calipers or a micrometer, that might solve the mystery. It would also suck since a lot of people believed that Starline's production would keep us all in parent brass for a long time. Thanks.


John

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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: JDK] #202826 10/22/2019 1:28 AM
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I'd just give SSK a call in the AM.


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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: magman] #202831 10/22/2019 2:11 AM
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My fired Rem. case measures .386.5 -.387, a sized case measures .378. With a .358 bullet seated it measures .381 -381.5 . So you seem to have a tight neck. I only have Rem. brass to measure.


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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: junebug] #202839 10/22/2019 10:35 AM
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My loaded rounds measure .380 with RP brass and Hornady 200gr SP bullets seated.

Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: Mech 8] #202844 10/22/2019 12:05 PM
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Thanks a bunch guys! Yeah, it does seem like the neck is cut too tight. No doubt the Starline brass appears a hair thicker than Rem., but Junebug?s fired cases would not fit in my chamber either. I?ll call SSK this morning and ask them about it. I sent an email Sunday night, but haven?t heard back yet. I think Doc said JD was hunting and he maybe the one who answers that email account. Thanks again for the help!


John

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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: JDK] #202850 10/22/2019 3:11 PM
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I spoke to Brian at SSK and he said their reamer is good and it is not the chamber. He suspects the Starline brass and said it works with 375 JDJ, but will NOT work with 309 JDJ. He said they haven't tried it with 358 JDJ yet, so I might be in uncharted waters. He said I could send it back, but that'll cost me $20 for postage. I'm trying to see if I can get a loaded round from someone local to me to check. If it works in one SSK cut chamber, but not mine, then I know it's the chamber. Conversely, It could show pretty quickly that Starline Brass is not going to work for JDJ cartridges below .375, which can help others save time and money by not making the mistake I made. Thanks for all the info gents!


John

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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: JDK] #202858 10/22/2019 4:49 PM
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Sorry I joined the party late. My loaded rounds - with Hornady brass - measure .385. A fired case measures .386. I suggest pulling a bullet and pressing the expanded case into the chamber to see if it fits. I am guessing it is very close. If it?s less than .001 you could possibly find slightly smaller bullets for fire forming. Once fired brass may thin out enough to work in the future. You could also have newly formed brass neck turned on a trimmer tool or a lathe. My chamber was cut by SSK in 1981 and has seen a lot of action.


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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: billa] #202859 10/22/2019 4:50 PM
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I assume you are not crimping. I do not crimp.


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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: billa] #202863 10/22/2019 5:33 PM
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Thanks Bill. No crimping. .379 slides right in without a bullet. .384 with a bullet and it stops in the exact same place no matter where the bullet is seated. It seems it has to be the chamber neck or case neck. I don?t have a puller, but I?ll seat a slug in an empty case and pull it with pliers to see what happens.

Last edited by JDK; 10/22/2019 5:33 PM.

John

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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: JDK] #202869 10/23/2019 12:48 AM
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My 358 JDJ is a rechambered factory 35 Rem TC, SSK did the work in 1995.
I took one each (444 Remington / 444 Starline) and resized them first in a 444 Marlin sizing die to square them up. For this exercise I screwed the 358 JDJ sizing die in the press so it touches the shell holder at the very top of the up stroke. That said, I have my die set so my cases receive a crush fit when chambered on the closed action.

Where are you setting up your die?

Both cases were trimmed to a length of 2.220. I used a Speer 180 grain flat point seated to the cannular grove.
Using ball micrometer, dial indicator, calipers etc. here are my numbers.

Starline 444 brass ? 358 JDJ
Neck thickness = 13.3 thousands
Neck diameter = .3801 inches
With the bullet COL = 2.779 inches
Neck diameter with bullet = .3848 inches

Remington 444 brass ? 358 JDJ
Neck thickness = 12.6 thousands
Neck diameter = .3768 inches
With the bullet COL = 2.777 inches
Neck diameter with the bullet = .3864 inches

With the Barrel OFF the action and held in my bench vise - BOTH rounds chamber freely with no resistance.

Let me know you need anything further.
D..


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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: Buck_358] #202870 10/23/2019 1:25 AM
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Thanks Buck! I appreciate all the info.

I met up with Mech8 this afternoon. He was kind enough to let me try his ammo and vis versa. His rounds, which fit his SSK barrel, will NOT fit my SSK chambered barrel. My loaded round fits his barrel just fine. I?m sending the barrel back to SSK tomorrow so they can figure it out. Mech8 and I were left with no doubt that my chamber is the culprit. Exactly what is wrong with it, we can?t t say with certainty, but it seems to be the neck. It has nothing to do with the bullet or how it?s seated and it?s not related to the case body or rim. Thanks again for the help everyone. I?ll update y?all once I know one thing for sure.


John

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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: JDK] #202981 10/29/2019 6:26 PM
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Talked to Brian today and got the answer. It's an Armor Alloy barrel. T/C plated those barrels inside and out. So, when SSK cut the chamber, it peeled/was rough in a small amount where the plating was removed during the reaming. Brian said that's unusual, but can happen. That kept my rounds from chambering fully. He is going to polish the throat to smooth that transition area down a bit. Hopefully I'll have it next week and can get to load development done. Thanks!


John

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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: JDK] #202982 10/29/2019 7:06 PM
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Interesting! Thanks for filling us in.

Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: JDK] #202985 10/29/2019 9:12 PM
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I knew something didn't look right down there. Glad to hear he is going to square things away for you.

Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: Mech 8] #202990 10/30/2019 12:20 AM
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I am glad the mystery is solved. Hopefully you will be on the range soon sending big lead down range.


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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: billa] #202991 10/30/2019 12:35 AM
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I HAVE BEEN WAITING "FOR THE REST OF THE STORY", GLAD IT SHUD HAVE A HAPPY ENDING. WITH METAL IT DOES NOT TAKE MUCH NOT TO FIT. AT 75, AND WITH PLENTY OF REVOLVERS STILL TO PLAY WITH, IT IS PROBABLY TOO LATE FOR ME TO GET INTO A 358 JDJ BUT I HAVE LONG ADMIRED IT.


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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: 45MAN] #203018 10/31/2019 12:41 PM
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Glad it was fixable for you. Let us know how it shoots. Have took out several deer and hogs with mine.

Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: popo] #203071 11/02/2019 3:18 AM
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Glad to see you got it taken care of!


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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: JDK] #203234 11/05/2019 11:51 PM
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I got my barrel back today. My loaded rounds still won't fit into the chamber. A dummy round they sent using Rem. brass does fit. There was no note, letter, or explanation with the barrel. I can only assume they sent the Rem round to show me it was my brass, even though I was told on the phone the throat was peeling plating. Also, remember my loaded rounds fit perfectly in Mech8's SSK barrel and his Rem rounds would NOT fit my chamber. If Starline brass was the problem, why does it work fine in another SSK chamber? At least one of their past chambers is different than this new chamber and that is without question.

I don't know exactly what the deal is but to say I'm irritated is an understatement. What do they expect me to do now? Buy a bunch of Rem brass that may or may not work in the barrel? They didn't offer me a lick of guidance. I had a perfectly good shooting .35 Rem. barrel, which isn't easy to find, and blew $500 to turn it into a mystery barrel promising days or weeks of frustration.


John

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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: JDK] #203235 11/06/2019 12:35 AM
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That would be irritating.

Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: popo] #203244 11/06/2019 2:12 AM
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I can't imagine the frustration. Hope you can get it sorted out.


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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: Chance Weldon] #203247 11/06/2019 2:45 AM
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JDK: TRY POLISHING THE SHOULDER/NECK AREA WITH STEEL WOOL.


"ADAPT OR DIE". I USE ALL CAPS, NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS AN OLD HABIT FROM MY ARMY DAYS, PLUS IT IS EASIER TO TYPE AND READ.
Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: 45MAN] #203257 11/06/2019 2:03 PM
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I?m going to try Mech8?s rounds in this ?new? chamber today. If his fit, then I guess I have no choice but to switch to Rem brass and be done with it. If not, then I?ll send it back again and be up to $50 in return shipping at that point and write off using the barrel for this season.

This is not what I expected from SSK. It shouldn?t be hard to open the neck or throat or whatever until the rounds I sent fit, as they do in other SSK chambers. Maybe their focus on AR rounds has put Contender gunsmithing on the back burner? Who knows.

Last edited by JDK; 11/06/2019 2:08 PM.

John

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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: JDK] #203265 11/06/2019 4:34 PM
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I called SSK and was told it was the Starline brass. When asked why Starline brass worked in other SSK chambers, I was told SSK changed to a tighter necked chamber in the past. He said Remington began to make their brass a little harder and SSK started to get reports of split necks, so they tightened up the chamber neck to prevent that from happening. So, it looks like I have to buy some Rem. brass.

I really wish I would have had the change in reamer dimensions explained to me the last time I was explaining all of this to them, since I told them my rounds were fitting in older SSK chambers. That was the most puzzling part. The good news for you guys with old SSK chambers is you should be able to use the plentiful Starline brass, which is also thicker.


John

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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: JDK] #203267 11/06/2019 5:19 PM
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JDK
I don't have a lot of my 1995 vintage 444 Remington brass left but if you would like to try a couple of samples I can mail them out. I could also include some that have been formed in my chamber. I could do the same for the 444 Star Line brass, if this would be of help.
D.


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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: Buck_358] #203269 11/06/2019 5:37 PM
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How frustrating to figure this out at this point. You think that it would be disclosed when placing the order.

Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: karl] #203270 11/06/2019 5:59 PM
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Thanks for the offer Buck358. I?m ordering 100 Rem cases. If, for some reason it doesn?t work, I?ll send it back to SSK and tell them to keep until it works.


John

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Re: 358 JDJ Rounds Will Not Chamber [Re: JDK] #203273 11/06/2019 7:15 PM
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Okay sounds good.
Might try to outside neck turn a case and see if that makes a difference.. Keep us posted.
D.


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