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Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: BIZZMO] #205080 01/15/2020 2:11 AM
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BBwheelgunner Offline OP
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BIZZMO, Those labradars look pretty cool. you like yours?

Karl,

I had skimmed through the findings of that MN DNR study some time ago if I recall. That is definitely one of the resaons I have been shooting copper while hunting when I have the opportunity too. I think they perform well too.


"If you are going to go through all the trouble to put a hole in something, why not make it a big one?"
Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: BBwheelgunner] #205084 01/15/2020 3:18 AM
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BB-I love my labradar! without it you're shooting in the dark-literally!It's easy to set-up and works anywhere.The only trouble I had with mine is when those fires were going out here and the smoke carries a lot of particulate matter and that messes with it.It's a little tough on batteries but you can get a rechargeable power pack or you can hook a usb cord to it.

Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: BIZZMO] #205197 01/21/2020 4:45 PM
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I will give them a try in .357 since I do not hand load it looks like something I should give a chance.

Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: Artemis444] #205212 01/23/2020 3:17 AM
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karl Offline
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Sorry that I was a bit slow getting time to sit down and run through the numbers. Here's what I calculated
The 41mag 210 deep curl with a 1580mv and 1250 100y vel has a BC of 0.183 which is pretty good for a pistol bullet
Hornady calculator predicts 1270fps @100y vs the 1250 you measured.

the 240gn 0.452 CEB doesn't have a listed BC, but I used the 250gn Barnes bullet (0.141) with your 1620mv and calculated 1224fps @100y vs the 1190 you measured. If I drop the BC to 0.135 100y vel. is 1210. For comparison, the 240gn hornady XTP mag has a BC of 0.16 and would give 1262 @100y. If I gave the bullet a BC of 0.183 that matched your deep curl, the 100y vel. would be 1300fps which is the same as your 41 mag numbers as you would expect.

0.18 BC for a pistol bullet is pretty good. The 0.452 deep curl 250gn has a BC of 0.165. I think what you are seeing for velocities is just a difference in BC values. This is impacted by bullet shape and material. The 300gn Swift A-Frame in 453 has a 0.129 BC. The Lehigh 300gn match solids have a 0.21 BC (would give you a bit over 1300@100y).

Incidentally, CEB recommends a minimum terminal velocity of 1500fps for their FB 452 250 Cu RAPTOR (which they say is for the 450 bushmaster) to function as intended on impact. Have you tested it on any water jugs or other things at 100y to see how it performs?

FYI The Barnes 250gn has a 1050fps minimum recommended velocity. @ 1600fps mv you get ~1080fps at 150y.

Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: karl] #205213 01/23/2020 3:01 PM
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Karl-Thankyou very much for the research and data.The C.E.B. bullets that I am using are the handgun raptors,they don't give terminal velocity for.I did shoot a water jug at 65 yds and found 3 petal holes in the remains of the jug as they say it will perform.The flat base bullets that you describe are rifle bullets.As for the barnes I can't get them to group under 4" at 100yds.The C.E.B. bullets are giving me consistent groups 2" and under using 17.8 grains of power pistol so I'm sticking with that load. I don't think I can do better than that.

Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: BIZZMO] #205214 01/23/2020 3:26 PM
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karl Offline
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Ahh, I found the bullets you are shooting. I would imagine they have a much lower terminal velocity requirement. They are also pretty blunt and rough so it I could easily imagine a pretty low BC value for them. Best of luck and let us know how it works out!

I understand on the Barnes, just threw it in for comparison on terminal velocity and range. I've only sent a couple down range with optics as I hope to use them with iron sights which will impose a much more limited distance for me.

Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: karl] #205215 01/23/2020 3:34 PM
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The Barnes shoot great at 50yds. so I ran out and bought all I could find at the time!Only to find out they wouldn't group at 100.So I bet you'll have good luck with them with irons.I am still open for any load suggestions for them as I have more than I would like to admit.

Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: BIZZMO] #205216 01/23/2020 3:50 PM
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I got the recipe from another HHM user here in the reloading data section of the site. I posted the details back to the database. I use H110 to get ~1600 fps in a relatively mild load that is a little bit below min from the Barnes published data in s SRH.

Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: karl] #205217 01/23/2020 4:45 PM
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Karl-I've tried h110 with 250 grain barnes in .5 grain increments from 27.0-29-0 and gotten 1530-1720 fps respectively, according to my notes all have given me under 1.5" accuracy at 50 yds but 4"-6" accuracy at 100.Oh how nice it would be just to stuff your favorite bullet in case full of H110 and go huntin'!!

Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: BIZZMO] #205218 01/23/2020 4:55 PM
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Would be nice, but where would be the fun in not having a shooting/reloading project to keep you busy and out of trouble during the off season? My wife is a little more allowing when I say I have a purpose to my range trips.

Are you intentionally keeping the velocity low to limit recoil like me? The Barnes loaddata runs from 29.5 to 32.8. I seem to remember that more velocity may increase stabilization at longer ranges.

Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: karl] #205219 01/23/2020 4:59 PM
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YES! and also I don't like compressed loads and 32.8 grains with the barnes is very compressed.

Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: BIZZMO] #205222 01/24/2020 2:33 PM
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BBwheelgunner Offline OP
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 Originally Posted By: BIZZMO
YES! and also I don't like compressed loads and 32.8 grains with the barnes is very compressed.


and depending on what kind of brass you are running (Barnes data uses Winchester) you can't (in my experience) fit all of that H110 in Starline cases and not deform the hollowpoint pretty badly.
I wrote Barnes about my experience using starline brass and they stated that the Starline brass obviously has less case volume than the WW because they did not experience any of those issues.

The Tech did say because of the smaller case volume, less powder should create the same velocities as the larger case with higher powder charges. interesting stuff!

If you are looking to get rid of those XPBs I may know a buyer!
;\)


"If you are going to go through all the trouble to put a hole in something, why not make it a big one?"
Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: BBwheelgunner] #205223 01/24/2020 3:29 PM
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 Originally Posted By: BBwheelgunner

The Tech did say because of the smaller case volume, less powder should create the same velocities as the larger case with higher powder charges. interesting stuff!

If you are looking to get rid of those XPBs I may know a buyer!
;\)


Case volume with the loaded bullet plays a huge roll in velocities. If you ignite the same amount of powder in a smaller volume the pressure gets higher and pushes the bullet faster. If you ever do some extrapolating between loads and different bullets, you need to pay attention to where the back of the bullet is between the different loads and what the available volume is inside the case. As Barnes said, different case brands play a roll too. Internal ballistics in a gun is a fascinating subject with lots of nuances.

If you do want to sell the XPB's i would take a few but am not planning on shooting a lot of them.

Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: karl] #205224 01/24/2020 3:39 PM
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I dropped the charge from 32.8 to 28.5 and it was still compressed and I was getting the same velocity,a different brand of case won't make that much difference when you're that compressed, Barnes missed on that one,thats why you have to start low and work up!

Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: BIZZMO] #205225 01/24/2020 5:02 PM
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LIGHT FOR LENGTH REVOLVER BULLETS DISAPPOINT IN MV. MANY YEARS AGO I HAD BARNES MAKE ME 500 45 CAL 260gr (MAYBE THEY WERE 265gr) WFN MONO-METAL BULLETS. I COULD GET 2,000fps WITH THE FA 260gr BULLET IN AN 8 3/8ths INCH MODEL 83 BUT THAT WAS WAY TOO FAST FOR THAT BULLET SO I WAS LOOKING FOR BULLET INTEGRITY AND HIGH VELOCITY. TO MY DISAPPOINTMENT, I COULD ONLY GET THE BARNES UP TO AROUND 1,800fps, NOT BAD BUT NOT WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR.


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Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: 45MAN] #205447 02/03/2020 12:17 PM
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I will try them in my .460 Encore when I can find some. I have been shooting the Barnes XPB 200 grain copper bullet with H110 in my 460 Encore since I got it. Best accuracy, fast and hits hard. I have had no deer or hogs walk away with one of the 200grn XPB in them.
I tried heavier bullets but didn't find the accuracy. Might have tried more loads but when I have this load that does it all for me, I'm sticking with it. I wouldn't be worried to try it on Elk or game of that size. I'm not sure what velocity I'm running with the 200's but it works.
I did load some XTP's and they shot good but are a little slower according to the Hornady manual.
Mike


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Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: Hawkeye] #205453 02/03/2020 3:30 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Hawkeye
I will try them in my .460 Encore when I can find some. I have been shooting the Barnes XPB 200 grain copper bullet with H110 in my 460 Encore since I got it. Best accuracy, fast and hits hard. I have had no deer or hogs walk away with one of the 200grn XPB in them.
I tried heavier bullets but didn't find the accuracy. Might have tried more loads but when I have this load that does it all for me, I'm sticking with it. I wouldn't be worried to try it on Elk or game of that size. I'm not sure what velocity I'm running with the 200's but it works.
I did load some XTP's and they shot good but are a little slower according to the Hornady manual.
Mike


Have you tried the 250 grain XPBs in your .460? I personally would be much more comfortable with that bullet over a 200 grainer on elk. JMHO.


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Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: 45MAN] #205778 02/27/2020 8:31 PM
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I think you may be right. Trying to get rifle speeds out of a revolver just doesn't seem to work well. I guess we will have to see how things go with this new line.


Hunting up close.
Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: Western Revolver] #206647 05/02/2020 8:51 PM
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I brought this topic back up with a little food for thought. I think some may learn something from this and others find this information interesting. Larry Kelly used a 200 gr bullet (208 gr to be exact) to kill a Bull Elephant with his 44 Mag..yes, the bullet was a bronze, tungsten core bullet, but it was 200 gr and penetrated the vitals of an Elephant. Depending on bullet material, weight is not always a limiting factor.


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Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: Franchise] #206648 05/03/2020 3:06 PM
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That is interesting Franchise.

I recently read JD Jones and Larry Kelly's book "Hunting for Handgunners" (good read by the way!) and was suprised to read that Larry did a lot of his hunting exploits with fairly light weight bullets in the 44 Magunum. From what I read he used 240gr bullets pretty extensively.

I really like the concept of the Hornady Handgun hunter bullets, and I hope they do as well as they claim.

Put a tungsten core in one of those and they would be unstoppable! haha

Last edited by BBwheelgunner; 05/03/2020 3:36 PM.

"If you are going to go through all the trouble to put a hole in something, why not make it a big one?"
Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: BBwheelgunner] #206650 05/04/2020 12:33 AM
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LOL...if only...too bad bronze bullets with tungsten cores are outlawed...which is really kinda crazy


The Eyes are Useless, When The Mind Is Blind
Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: Franchise] #206817 05/19/2020 3:36 AM
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Pigman hunted with these very bullets on tonight's show...y'all need to watch this episode


The Eyes are Useless, When The Mind Is Blind
Re: Hornady Handgun Hunter [Re: Franchise] #206839 05/21/2020 12:06 AM
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 Originally Posted By: Franchise
Pigman hunted with these very bullets on tonight's show...y'all need to watch this episode


I recorded and then watched that episode today. The wound channels that their pigs demonstrated with the 44 Mag load were impressive.

I have no experience with mono metal bullets, and I know that the Barnes have demonstrated that mono metals can function like a heavier cup and core bullet, but I just can't get past the light weight and long bearing surface of solid copper. I was excited when I read that Hornady was releasing an ammo line specifically for us. We should be proud that anyone is catering to us. I won't lie, I was disappointed when I discovered Hornady had chosen to go solid copper. I am currently enamored with bonded hollow points in my .44, and hoped for an improved XTP. I think most can agree the XTP is accurate. I understand the drama and discord surrounding the XTP is inconsistent, over/under expansion, or even jacket seperation. I think bonding can address these shortcomings. I really believe bonded and jacketed hollow points of standard weight pushed fast is where it's at.

Perhaps a Hornady XTPB&J?

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