just read in ky afield magazine that starting this year that no handguns will be allowed for ky. elk. i don't see it listed on the site..but i just read it in the newest magazine.

this is something i had been looking forward to applying for and one day take a ky elk by handgun. this decision by ky dept of wildlife is absolutely ridiculous

i got a 300 winchester magnum encore handgun here that will take an elk easily. whur is their reasoning?

if youins would contact the ky dept of fish n wildlife by email n let them know that this ruling is totally unfounded.....i'd appreciate it. thanks

http://www.kyafield.com/

they just prob. havent relized that ther is some one out ther crazy enough to shoot a 300 winny mag in a hangun
hahahahah

dave

Man!!!! that stinks!!!! I have family working in Frankfort, I will have them check on this . Even though I no longer live in KY, I think this ruling is crazy.
nmhunter

Quote:

---

they just prob. havent relized that ther is some one out ther crazy enough to shoot a 300 winny mag in a hangun

---

lol..........maybe, but there are still a lotta cartridges out there that will work. 7-08 n up in single shots, and 44magnum n up in revolvers....just to name a couple.

even a rifle hunter has to live within his safe boundaries of making a clean kill.....n i bet a lot of us could give them rifle hunters a run fer their money ...at any range.

Kyode,

Get an email address of the head honcho at the dept and we'll bobard his butt with email about this stupidity...

Thats pathetic, here in oregon your handgun just has to be 24 cal centerfire or bigger. I'd rather see someone hunting elk with a 41mag and hard cast than a 243 rifle like some people I know out here. Get that email address like Dan and Gary said and I'll join in

KYODE,
I'm disappointed as well. I have been putting in every year and even convinced myself to get a .450 Marlin barrel for my Encore pistol.

I don't know how they arrived at their decision. I work in state government in Frankfort but not at F&W. Not much chance of getting those guys to change their minds but it doesn't hurt to be heard.

Below is an information e-mail address from the KY F&W website. The Commissioner is Jon Gassett who I think is a good guy as best I can tell, despite my disappointment.

info.center@ky.gov
The website also says the following upon contacting them "Please include your name and mailing address in this message if requesting mailings"

Could not find Mr. Gassett's state e-mail address but can make a good educated guess based on the fact that I work for state government.

It is likely to be:
jon.gassett@ky.gov

I would hope that any contact made by the members of this forum would state the issue in a respectful manner, less I end up regretting putting this information on here.

Extremism (is that a real word??) is often the worst way to approach any situation that one hopes to sway opinions on. I too would hope that anyone sending a message to this fellow would do so in a well thought out and sensible manner. That's the great part about this message board...everyone is open minded to others opinions and provide valuable insite to help those that they can.

The fellow in charge the F&W may just need his eyes guided to the fact that handgunners aren't carrying Barney Fife revolvers.

I know it is hard to believe with me but I sent a respectfull note to both email addresses, it was hard but I behaved myself

here is the reply that was sent back to me:

**********************************************************
Yes, it's true that the Fish and Wildlife Commission voted to ban the use of handguns for elk hunting. This recommendation still has to pass the legislature before it will become law. I will pass your comments on to Dr. Tina Brunjes, our big game coordinator.

Hayley Lynch
Information Center
Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources
1-800-858-1549
************************************************************

so maybe their is still some hope

If you can take Buffalo and elephant with handguns - and"mere" revolvers at that surely a handgun is capable of taking an elk. Please talk sense into these rocket scientists. My shooting partner (now sadly based in the States) and I are planning an elk package next season.

Oh well going to have to get a buff instead!

LT

I just tried calling Dr. B. That phone # is for a fax machine and it's the same one listed on the F&W website. I'm sending an email to try and get her direct line. I'm going to send her a couple copies of the magazine if she'll let me. I'll keep you posted.

Kyode - now what you need to do is start contacting legislators and get them on our side. They can vote this thing down but once it becomes law it will be nearly impossible to reverse. You might also contact SCI National and the NRA lobbist in your area.

Ok here's her real number 800-852-0942 x462. I just left her a message; hopefully she'll call back.

thanks gary!

Talked to the district asst. commissioner for the region our farm is in. His comments to me were directed towards the protecion of the elk herd due to poor shooting in the past by "rifle" hunters. Don't get me wrong, this man was instrumental in bringing the elk to KY and is one of the fiinest sportsmen I know. HE is concerned about the elk future in KY and will work towards that. I do not believe he is aware of what handgunning has become and the improvements over the past several years. However; It sounds like to me that the decision to bring this to a vote is, it is easier to outlaw the use of all handguns and therefore eliminate one area of possible "poor" shooting techniques instead of regulating the caliber and other facets concerning the types of handguns that can be used. I did find the comm. name and e- mail. It is jon.gassett@ky.gov The assoc. comm did say he would send my concerns up the ladder. I also contacted the NRA about this issue. You can also find all of the assoc. comm. in the ky fish and game website by searching by commisioner.
nmhunter
send them e-mails....
nmhunter .

Gary, just talked to Dr Brunjes and she said she did here from you and will call you back. I would still keep trying, the KDFW is busy with other issues going on. she said she has had quite a bit of correspondence as well. I recommnedeed that she read the annuals as well to see what handgunners are hunting these days. good luck in getting intouch with her, she seems pretty reasonable. She also stated that the regulation was in the records all of the time about the use of handguns for the limited elk hunt but had never been put into the annual regs. that were issued. Now would be the time to get that changed.
nmhunter

i just emailed jon gasset as well. thanks dude

Mr. Huelter,

I have forwarded your comments to our big game coordinator.

Hayley Lynch
Information Center
Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources
1-800-858-1549





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Wapitirod@aol.com [mailto:Wapitirod@aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 12:23 AM
To: info.center@ky.gov
Subject: Handgun hunting for elk


Mr. Gasset,
It has come to my attention that your state is not allowing the use of handguns for elk hunting, I myself live in a state with both Roosevelt and Rocky Mountain as well as cross bred elk. Here in Oregon as well as all other western elk states handgun hunting is legal as long as the firearm is a 24 caliber centerfire or larger. I think your concern should be more with hunter ethics than the chosen firearms, a ethical hunter with a 44 mag revolver can take an elk more cleanly than a hunter shooting at hair with the largest magnum rifles. I would appreciate it if you would reconsider this restrictions on handguns for my fellow handgun hunters in your state.

Respectfully,
Rod Huelter
Bend OR

I have some information that I gathered throughout the day that may be of some interest to you all.

First, I want to thank Gary and Wapitirod and any others who have joined in to help us handgunners here in Kentucky.

1. nmhunter is on the money with regards to how this got started. So this is not something that originated with the actual F&W agency, but came from a district commissioner (who is apparently a great guy who was instrumental in bring elk to Kentucky but who may be also making some uniformed assumptions). I spoke with the president of the League of Kentucky Sportsmen and he also indicated that this arose as a result of some rifle hunting mishaps during the past elk season. With the limited information I have its hard to understand how that could result in a call to ban handguns.

2. This is a clarification to a state regulation, not a state statute. Therefore, this does not go before the full general assembly but would only need to be approved by a legislative subcommittee - in this case the Administrative Regulation Review Subcommittee. That is why this thing was sort of quiet - I am glad KYODE was able to find this out by reading KY Afield magazine.

3. There is a preliminary meeting tomorrow, I think?? with the ARRS subcommittee. This is not the final word on this proposed regulation but if looked on favorably it would take the next step to promulgation which would take place a month or so from now. I have tried to contact legislators but with the general assembly in session its next to impossible to get a word with them, especially a commoner such as I.

4. I contacted the League of Kentucky Sportsmen this morning and found out that they only got wind of this last night themselves. I spoke with the president who is a fine fellow. I urged them to become ivolved and he asked me to send him an e-mail outlining my concerns. I only had a few minutes, so it is rough and I am no expert, but I hope it got the point across. Please, don't get mad at me if I said something you don't agree with. I did my best on short notice. He passed it on to F&W.

Here it is:

From:
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 1:05 PM
To:
Cc: Hatton, Tony (EPPC DEP DWM)
Subject: FW: Handguns for Elk in Kentucky

Gentlemen, Tony Hatton, contacted me this morning with concerns about
restricting the use of hand guns during elk hunting. I agree with his
analyses, below is his thoughts on this matter. I hope you will take his
concerns to the table while addressing this matter.

>From: "Hatton, Tony (EPPC DEP DWM)" <Tony.Hatton@ky.gov>
>To:
>Subject: Handguns for Elk in Kentucky
>Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 11:19:55 -0500
>
>
>Mr.
>I appreciate you taking the time to speak with me earlier today and I thank
>you for allowing me to forward to you my concerns. As I said earlier, I
>have the utmost respect for the Kentucky Department of Fish and
>Wildlife in the realm of their personnel and their work. They do a
tremendous job.
>
>I am however concerned about a current proposal that would ban the use
>of handguns for hunting elk in Kentucky. The reason I am concerned is
>that it would exclude a hunting implement that is more than capable of
>ethically harvesting and elk - as much as any rifle or piece of archery
equipment.
>Like any other hunting implement, be it rifle or archery equipment as
>well (assuming using good bullets and good broadheads), shot placement
>is also a key part of the equation. You mentioned that some elk were
>shot last year with a .300 Win Mag and did not expire. I think one of
>the reasons we see this happen, and perhaps may continue to see it is
>that many of us here in Kentucky might take out the same garden variety
>rifle ammunition we have traditionally used to take deer. No question
>about it, premium bullets are better for heavy game and using a
>traditional bullet that we might use for deer, on an elk, can lead to
>problems - it's a matter of education. If this (poorly shot and
>wounded game) becomes an increasing problem then a proficiency test
>might be in order - but more bureaucracy is not always desirable. I
>know that is a whole other can of worms.
>
>Here I am going too far a field so I will get back to my point. There
>are handguns that are more than capable of cleanly killing an elk, and
>are used each year to do so. In fact, handguns are routinely used to
>take game much larger than elk. That said, I agree that no one should
>be chasing elk with an underpowered pistol (i.e., 9mm, 40 S&W, .45 ACP,
>.41 Mag and a host of others). However, some of your large framed
>revolvers in .44 Mag, .454 Casull, .460 S&W Magnum, .500 S&W Magnum are
>more than capable of cleanly taking an elk within their effective
>ranges. Not to mention some of the large single shot pistols that are
>chambered in proven rifle calibers such as 375JDJ, .450 Marlin, .45-70 and
many others.
>
>I would hope that the F&W commission might be able to consider some of
>these factors before they make a final decision. Although handgun
>hunters are a relatively small fraternity, the men I know that hunt
>with a handgun are just as dedicated to their pursuit as any other
>sector in the hunting fraternity - and ultimately we are all in the
>same fraternity. It has long been a dream of mine to hunt an elk in
>Kentucky and to do so with one of my handguns. Too date the only thing
>that has kept me from that is that I have not had the good fortune to
>be drawn. If this change is made to the regulations I will never have
>that opportunity. But its not about me, its about a desire for the F&W
>folks to make an informed decision so that some of us would not get cut
>out of that opportunity of a lifetime.
>
>Perhaps the commission would be willing to enter into some dialogue
>that would go towards establishing some minimum calibers or energies
>that would allow certain handguns to be used. Other states do so.
>
>Again, I thank you for your time and any efforts you might be able to
>put forth on my behalf. My contact information is below:
>
>
>Anthony R. Hatton, P.G.
>Kentucky Division of Waste Management
>14 Reilly Road
>Frankfort, KY 40601
>Phone 502-564-6716
>Fax 502-564-4049
>Tony.Hatton@ky.gov

5. The president of my sportsmans club who is also a member of the League of Kentucky Sportsmen has contacted the F&W commissioner from our area of the state and plans to speak with a local lobbyist for the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. I understand that members of the League will be present tomorrow to discuss this issue.

At least there are some folks engaged now who understand the process and who may have some sway with F&W.

I'm very happy to see you mention the RMEF lobbyist, TCScout. I'd strongly suggest involving RMEF however you can, as I know they have experience working with KY F&W on the elk program and hopefully know who to contact on short notice to make sure all sides are represented in the discussion.

following is the response I received this morning from KY fish and game.

Dear Sportsman,

Thank you for expressing your concerns regarding use of handguns for elk in Kentucky. I’d like to share some information with you about this issue.

At the last Commission Meeting, use of handguns was brought before the Commission as a clean-up of an error we made when the hunting guide was released. The regulation (http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/kar/301/002/132.htm), which states that a handgun cannot be used or possessed while elk hunting was already on the books. We had simply failed to put it into the hunting guide and wanted to make the Commission was aware of the oversight and that it would be corrected in this year’s hunting guide.

No regulatory change or amendment is currently planned or filed with the Legislative Review Committee in regards to this issue. However, if anyone would like to ask the Commission to revisit this issue, they should contact them and ask them to put it on the appropriate Committee agenda (November 2006).

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me via email or by phone.

Sincerely,

Tina Brunjes

i got the same thing.

who n how on the commision is what has me lookin dumb at the moment.