 Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
#17511
12/08/2006 10:38 PM
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scottk
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Like I said, I want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer. I just got my foundation, a factory stock Remington XP-100 cambered in .221 Remington Fireball. I am looking to build a complete custom handgun in 22-250. What are the sorts of "upgrades" I should consider for this endevor? What length barrel? What barrel profile? Mid-stock or rear-stock? Trigger? Bolt? Bolt release? Etc....? How about the scope, mount and rings?
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Sla
[Re: scottk]
#17512
12/09/2006 1:59 AM
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keyman
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Whatever you decide to do, save the original barrel, stock, and misc. parts. Put them on e-Bay or similar showcase and collectors will pay a premium price for them. May offset some of your custom work costs. Never know!!
D'Keyman (Non Sibi Sed Partiae)
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: scottk]
#17513
12/09/2006 3:58 AM
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Ernie
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What distance do you want to achieve? I love these discussions 
Ernie the Un-Tactical 
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: Ernie]
#17514
12/10/2006 3:12 AM
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Dan B.
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Quote:
I love these discussions
Yep, Yep, Yep!!! I love helping others spend money!!
Like Ern asked....what kind of distances? Budget?
My basic recommendation would be a 1 in 8" (possibly 7") twist in a 17" heavy barrel. This would allow you to pump out the heavy 77gr and heavier high BC .224" bullets at a decent velocity. To help push along the heavies...you could go with the 22-250AI. But...that's if you want to reach the MAX potential of the .224" caliber.
If you wanted a basic 22-250 for sub-400yd shooting, I have a Striker 22-250 w/ a 16" barrel and 1-12" twist that shoots 50gr V-Max's great. But in windy conditions the light .224" bullets get blown around pretty good. In really good conditions you will certainly get beyond 400yds...and easily to 500+ but not every day is calm.
Once you figure out what you really want to achieve in terms of range, the rest is easy.
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: Dan B.]
#17515
12/11/2006 2:34 AM
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scottk
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Quote:
Quote:
I love these discussions
Yep, Yep, Yep!!! I love helping others spend money!!
Like Ern asked....what kind of distances? Budget?
My basic recommendation would be a 1 in 8" (possibly 7") twist in a 17" heavy barrel. This would allow you to pump out the heavy 77gr and heavier high BC .224" bullets at a decent velocity. To help push along the heavies...you could go with the 22-250AI. But...that's if you want to reach the MAX potential of the .224" caliber.
If you wanted a basic 22-250 for sub-400yd shooting, I have a Striker 22-250 w/ a 16" barrel and 1-12" twist that shoots 50gr V-Max's great. But in windy conditions the light .224" bullets get blown around pretty good. In really good conditions you will certainly get beyond 400yds...and easily to 500+ but not every day is calm.
Once you figure out what you really want to achieve in terms of range, the rest is easy.
To answer both Ern's and Dan's questions, I was thinking of using lighter 40 to 50 possibly 55 grain ballistic tips of some sort for distances out to the 400 to 500 yard range, possibly a little farther with some luck. Dan, I hear you on the 70 grain reccommendation, I just would rather be a little more conventional. Earlier this year I was using 50 grain bullets in my rifles and had a nice hit at 827 yards with my Kimber Long Master VT in 22-250. Although that kind of range with consistant hits would be nice, I am just planning for the shorter ranges.
As for budget, I am not Rockerfeller but I was thinking somewhere in the 1K range with my existing XP-100 should net me a pretty good custom.
Anything on the other issues like trigger, bolt, stock etc...?
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: scottk]
#17516
12/11/2006 11:42 AM
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Dan B.
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Since you are "only"  looking to get around 500yds, a bone stock Savage Striker 22-250 would do that without a problem...and save you a bunch of money. I think Ernie made the 500yd club with a XP-100 in .221FB. I've made several 400yds and close to 400yds one shot kills with my Striker 22-250 and 50gr V-Max.
With building on the XP that you have, you will be looking at getting the bolt face opened up to accept the larger case head. That will also involve the addition of a new extractor (Sako style is recommended). To help, I pasted a list of prices of work that I recently had done to an XP that I had built into a 7mm-270WSM...most of the items are things that you would need to have done to you gun.
Lilja 1-9 stainless barrel...................................$295
>
> Receiver accurizing............................................$175
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> Fit bolt with Sako extractor................................$120
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> Adjust bolt stop(if needed)...............................$25
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> Machine Holland Comp recoil lug..................$95
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> Fit and chamber barrel......................................$175
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> Matte finish barrel...............................................$30
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> Holland QD or DE muzzle brake.................................$150 installed
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> Inletting and bedding.........................................$85
>
> Trigger
> tuning......................................................$40
Other than the brake and matte finish, most of these items are going to be costs incurred for the build. You will also need to get a stock. The Zytel will not work with a heavy barrel. That will run you in the neighborhood of $335 (shipped) from HS Precision. I got one on the web used but still paid $175 and it took months to find. Ernie has switched to using McMillan stock but I am not sure what thye cost...but I can not imagine they are going to be any cheaper. So between a stock and a barrel you will easily wack MOST of you budget.
You will also have to consider optics unless you have something already. For PD shooting I would go with a rifle scope. I don't do any of that kind of shooting so I only use the Burris 3-12x32 w/ either target knobs or the BP reticle.
Mounts and rings...as much as I wanted to spend the money on a steel Farrel base, I only had funds for a Weaver when it came time to plunk down the cash. So far it is holding up fine on the WSM XP-100. My other custom XP's (.222 Rem and .222 Rem Mag Imp) also have Weaver and are just fine. For rings, I use the Burris Signature w/ inserts ("0" in front and .020" in the back) to gain enough elevation to allow me to dial in for ranges to 500yds...and hopefully beyond when I get a better rangefinder and longer place to shoot.
Bolt release...I only have one gun with a release but I do need one on the WSM XP. Not sure of the name but the one on my .222 Rem Mag Imp is sold through Sinclair's.
Last edited by Dan B.; 12/11/2006 12:10 PM.
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: scottk]
#17517
12/11/2006 12:43 PM
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Ernie
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Scott,
Dan said it pretty well.
The only negative with me is that some of the Strikers triggers are less than desireable while others are pretty good when adjusted, but most Strikers are really accurate.
Currently I only have one centergrip McMillan, but I do have a rear grip BR stock from them too.
I think the McMillan's are a stronger center-grip stock than the H-S's, but I have not any of the newer H-S's fail on me, but they have not been chambered in anything over a 284 win capacity.
A 223 AI would even do pretty good at the distances mentioned and wouldn't require the bolt face to be opened but would cost more in the die department.
A custom stock, opening up bolt face, external bolt stop/release, barrel, and bedding will eat up most of your funds.
Ernie the Un-Tactical
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: scottk]
#17518
12/11/2006 4:13 PM
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katcher
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Scott, Dan and XP...Thanks for the information and data. Scott...I had some of the same questions myself for Striker in 22-250 that I just purchased over at SP forum. I think you all have some good ideas and the costs Dan has listed are not all that unreasonable from my experience. Dan...did you stick with the standard 3-12 scope or did you have the reticle modified for the LR shooting? Thanks for the help and ideas.
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: katcher]
#17519
12/12/2006 1:31 AM
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Dan B.
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Quote:
Dan...did you stick with the standard 3-12 scope or did you have the reticle modified for the LR shooting?
The 3-12x32 on my 7mm-270WSM XP-100 is a standard matte black scope with the Ballistic Plex reticle. Next year I'll have this scope modified by Burris to have target turrets. Then when time allows on a LR shot I will dial in the range instead of gapping the stadia lines. Dialing works very well for me. I've missed two deer by picking the wrong stadia line.
My other LR guns all wear 3-12x32's with the target turrets and fine plex crosshairs.
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: Ernie]
#17520
12/12/2006 1:58 AM
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Dan B.
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Quote:
A 223 AI would even do pretty good at the distances mentioned and wouldn't require the bolt face to be opened but would cost more in the die department.
I have a .222 and .222 Rem Mag Imp and 22-250 to compare velocities. The .222 Rem Mag Imp is a .223AI on a double does of steriods. All are shooting a 50gr V-Max.
.222 Rem will do 2900fps w/ 20gr IMR4198.
.222 Rem Mag Imp will do 3220fps w/ 27.5gr of Varget.
.22-250 will do 3350fps w/ 35gr Varget.
At 500yds the .222 Rem Mag Imp and 22-250 are less than .5MOA (2.5") difference in dial in's with both needing about a 10 MOA dial in for zero. The .222 Rem needs 13.2 MOA.
That option (.222 Rem Mag Imp) would save you a chunk of money on gunsmith work and you can look for used dies.
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: Dan B.]
#17521
12/12/2006 5:50 AM
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sscoyote
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I think that's the 1 i'd pick too. Ray Prager on another forum likes his 22-204 Ruger, which i think is a 222 Rem. Mag. Imp. necked down, then necked back up to .224. Sounds like an odd way to go, but he made it sound like a good system, maybe easier than fireforming 222 RM to the improved chamber. What do u think on this Dan??
Steve
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: sscoyote]
#17522
12/12/2006 11:10 AM
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Dan B.
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Quote:
I think that's the 1 i'd pick too. Ray Prager on another forum likes his 22-204 Ruger, which i think is a 222 Rem. Mag. Imp. necked down, then necked back up to .224. Sounds like an odd way to go, but he made it sound like a good system, maybe easier than fireforming 222 RM to the improved chamber. What do u think on this Dan??
I've not talked to Ray about his gun, but I'd guess that his is simply using the .204 Ruger brass necked up to .224" with possibly no foreforming needed. Which, in the beginning the .204 is the old .222 Rem Magnum case just neck down and probably a shoulder angle change.
KYODE has a 6mm-204 kinda thing I think. It's another was to get a 6mmx47 but uses the easier to find .204 brass.
My chambered in the .222 Rem Mag Improved actually has a 45 degree shoulder...pretty awesome looking!
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: Dan B.]
#17523
12/12/2006 8:53 PM
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KYODE
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did someone mention my name?  i use the 204 ruger brass to make a 6x47. i shove the 204 shoulder back n neck up to 6x47 dimensions, since the 204 case shoulder is farther forward than the 222mag. still a simple run into the 6x47 size die, just as you would a 222mag neck up. works great so far, and local brass available fer cheap.  now ray aka "okd fart" at specialty pistols site.......he shoots the 22-204 improved. he does fireform to a 40degree shoulder on that one. the 204 case originates from 222mag, but the shoulder on the 204 is a good bit forward from the parent case, so even a simple neck back up to 22cal would still yield more capacity than the 222mag itself. oughta be a good one to chamber n just use .223 dies.....maybe...lol
Kentucky….no place like home.
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: KYODE]
#17524
12/18/2006 8:16 PM
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scottk
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Folks, Thanks much for the excellent suggestions and advise. I am beginning to think that this is the impossible dream though. You see prairie dog slaying is all about explosive terminal performance, long ranges, and long hours. If I choose a cartridge with tolerable recoil for the long hours, I miss out on either long range, or explosive terminal performance. I was kind of wishing I could have it all and do away with those rifles. The .243 was the most promissing but the recoil can become stressful over the long haul. I am kind of leaning toward keeping the .221 and going for a longer, heavier, precission barrel, a rear grip conversion and a beaver tail fore-stock. Oh well, it was a good dream Thanks all.
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: scottk]
#17525
12/18/2006 10:07 PM
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Ernie
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For LR slaying a 1-8 twist barrel chambered in 6-284 shooting 105 A-Max's should yield some decent expansion with a MV of 2850-2900 fps.
With a heavy barrel and a Holland brake recoil would never be an issue.
Also have shorter range SP for your close and more frequent shooting. you can have your cake and eat it too, but you may need two SP's to get there.
Ernie the Un-Tactical
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: scottk]
#17526
12/19/2006 1:59 AM
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Tigger
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Quote:
I am kind of leaning toward keeping the .221 and going for a longer, heavier, precission barrel, a rear grip conversion and a beaver tail fore-stock. Oh well, it was a good dream Thanks all.
That was my thought with my XP in 221 FB. Great little efficient cartridge. So I got an H S Precision center grip stock, then a 15" heavy contour barrel from Lilja. If all goes well it will see completion in the fall of 07. The HS stock is great and the 15" barrel should really help with velocity.
NRA Life Member
** NEVER! Moon a Werewolf!!**
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: Tigger]
#17527
12/20/2006 7:06 AM
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sscoyote
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Interesting what u guys have done with the 204 Ruger/222 RM cases. Fun stuff to talk about. My handgun shooting partner Mitch purchased a used Striker 22-250, and his 1st day out pr. dog shooting he took a double @ 175 yds., and the second dog's head was completely severed and flipped a yard or so in the air. This from a 60 gr. JLK LD bullet. 22-250 capacity is the way to go IMO for handgun pr. dog shooting. I'd definitely get a 8 or 9 twist barrel on it though, just in case u ever wanna shoot the slightly heavier bullets for longer range. The 68/69's can be found on sale a lot thru Midway, etc. pretty cheap.
Steve
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: sscoyote]
#17528
12/20/2006 11:29 PM
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scottk
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Just plain old .204 Ruger sounds interesting. Small very fast bullets should not be affected by wind too much since they are small and not in the air long. Hummm.... .204 with a heavy bull barrel should allow you to watch the action also. The .204 would be economical as well.
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: scottk]
#17529
12/21/2006 1:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
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Dan B.
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Quote:
Small very fast bullets should not be affected by wind too much since they are small and not in the air long.
I did a little research.....
The 22-250 w/ a 50gr V-Max at 3300fps (conservative load) drifts 19.1" at 400yds.
The .204 w/ a 40gr V-Max at 3200fps (conservative load) drifts 17.1" at 400yds.
Max rifle velocities for the 22-250 are in the 3750-3900fps range for this bullet. My load is at 3300fps...I based the loss of 450-600fps against the .204 for its velocity. Hodgdons website shows max velocities of 3600-3700fps...so I used 3200fps as a conservative figure. I was surpised to see that little 40gr .204 cal V-Max sports a BC of .275.
If you go the .20 cal route...you are going to need new jags, rods, funnels, etc. The bullets are about half again more than the .224" also...according to the Hornady website.
Last edited by Dan B.; 12/21/2006 1:58 AM.
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: Dan B.]
#17530
12/21/2006 2:28 PM
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scottk
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Quote:
I did a little research.....
The 22-250 w/ a 50gr V-Max at 3300fps (conservative load) drifts 19.1" at 400yds.
The .204 w/ a 40gr V-Max at 3200fps (conservative load) drifts 17.1" at 400yds.
Max rifle velocities for the 22-250 are in the 3750-3900fps range for this bullet. My load is at 3300fps...I based the loss of 450-600fps against the .204 for its velocity. Hodgdons website shows max velocities of 3600-3700fps...so I used 3200fps as a conservative figure. I was surpised to see that little 40gr .204 cal V-Max sports a BC of .275.
Thanks Dan. I had read some articles that were giving the .204 around 4200 fps with 40 gr V-Max's. I was thinking that with that kind of speed, air time would be minimized. You folks have the experience though so I am more apt to trust what you are telling me (plus you back up what you say with the "bible").
Decisions, decisions, what to do, what to do..... hummm
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: scottk]
#17531
12/22/2006 9:05 PM
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scottk
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Okay, I have made a decision (I think ). I am going to go with a 16" full bull barrel in regular .223 REM, rear grip stock set-up like a bench gun with a wide beaver tail forestock. Of course there will be action trueing and what not. My next question is this: Does .223 bark so much in a handgun with a heavy barrel that I would want an extended eye relief scope? Would I want an extended eye relief scope even if the recoil did not demand it?
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: scottk]
#17532
12/24/2006 1:04 AM
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Tigger
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I have a standard 15" encore barrel in 223 with a 16X rifle scope on top. I like the rifle scope and recoil is not enough to bother with the short eye relife of the rifle scope. If you are going with a heavy barrel I would think the recoil would be low enough for you to use a rifle scope. The 16X really brings in the charlies at 200 yards.
NRA Life Member
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: Dan B.]
#17533
12/28/2006 11:42 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 212
ranger140892
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the original Zytel stock will work fine with any barrel contour with a little work. I started doing this because I prefer the Rem stock's grip. And of course the $avings!
I first drill the fore end with several 1/4" holes at varying angles. Then build up the sides and bottom with fiberglass sheets dipped in Acraglas. Once hardened, I shape it, hog out the barrel channel with a Dremel, then full length bed with about 1/8" bedding tape along the barrel except for the first 1.5". I did one for a buddy and added an alloy barrel channel rail for stiffness at his request, though it didn't need it.
For a final finish I fill any voids with Acraglas, sand, and usually black or green Wrinkle paint. Some stocks I'll airbrush on a camo pattern.
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: ranger140892]
#17534
12/28/2006 12:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,375
Dan B.
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Quote:
the original Zytel stock will work fine with any barrel contour with a little work. I started doing this because I prefer the Rem stock's grip. And of course the $avings!
I first drill the fore end with several 1/4" holes at varying angles. Then build up the sides and bottom with fiberglass sheets dipped in Acraglas. Once hardened, I shape it, hog out the barrel channel with a Dremel, then full length bed with about 1/8" bedding tape along the barrel except for the first 1.5". I did one for a buddy and added an alloy barrel channel rail for stiffness at his request, though it didn't need it.
For a final finish I fill any voids with Acraglas, sand, and usually black or green Wrinkle paint. Some stocks I'll airbrush on a camo pattern.
I considered doing this with a stock that I had laying around. How well does the factory stock hold up to larger hitting cartridges than what the factory offered?
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: Dan B.]
#17535
12/28/2006 8:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 212
ranger140892
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Dan, it works fine. I've done this to several XP's in 308 class, 35 Rem, and one in 338-284. No issues. I can't post photos here but I'll email some to you.
Mike
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: Tigger]
#17536
12/30/2006 3:41 AM
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scottk
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Quote:
I have a standard 15" encore barrel in 223 with a 16X rifle scope on top. I like the rifle scope and recoil is not enough to bother with the short eye relife of the rifle scope. If you are going with a heavy barrel I would think the recoil would be low enough for you to use a rifle scope. The 16X really brings in the charlies at 200 yards.
Yah, that's what I am talking about. I just happen to have a couple of nice Leupold VX-III 6.5-20x50mm Long Range Target scopes with varmint reticles loafing around doing nothing and was hoping to put one to good use.
Thanks for the info.
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: scottk]
#17537
12/30/2006 7:17 AM
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Posts: 547
sscoyote
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I also have that reticle in a 4.5-14X VX-III on my 243 WSSM Striker, and love it. 1 of the best ballistic reticles out there IMO. I'm assuming it's the Varmint Hunter reticle Scott,right??
Steve
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Re: Help - Want to build an XP-100 Prairie Dog Slayer
[Re: sscoyote]
#17538
12/30/2006 3:47 PM
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scottk
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Quote:
I also have that reticle in a 4.5-14X VX-III on my 243 WSSM Striker, and love it. 1 of the best ballistic reticles out there IMO. I'm assuming it's the Varmint Hunter reticle Scott,right??
Yep right, Varmint Hunter reticle with range and windage striations.
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