I want to start working with my .444 Marlin Contender for a probable brown bear hunt this fall.
The load I had worked up for moose was 270 gr Speer Gold Dot softpoint @ around 2100. Never did get to try it on moose.
Anyone have experience with this combo or with this cartridge on big bears?
Would this be a good bullet choice or would you choose something different? Suggestions?

I shot my 2 Brownies with a .416 Rem Mag. so what do I know?
Nevertheless, I'd also look at the Hornady 265 gr. bullet, which should work very well.

Vance,
I think if I were to go after Browns with my .444, I would choose the Northern Precision 350 gr bonded bullet. Out of my 14inch barrel I'm getting 1800fps and its a deadly killer on the big stuff.

Thanks guys.
I really don't want to step down weight wise 500WE, & if I change at all will probably go up in weight. Do (did) you up here or just came up hunting?

Ed, do you have a contact for Northern Precision or a web address where I can look at their products? Any load data you wouldn't mind sharing?

Buddy used his 375 JDJ with the Hornady 270gr Spire Point on his grizzly. Dropped it with one shot.

Vance,

Be sure to remove the front sight.

On a more serious note: I'd call JD Jones on this one and see what he recommends. I'm thinking an Encore with a 375-06 or something like that would be more appropriate. If you don't have a serious DG rifle backup with you, that 444 seems a good bit light for a brownie.

Your chances of getting the bear pi$$ed off or wounding him and loosing him seems very high with a 444. I rarely criticize people for cartridge selection but I urge you to stop and carefully think this one through.

Another excellent resource is Mark Hampton. He's been there and done that with single shot handguns many a time. I think he'd also recommend something with a bit more oomph.

$bob$

Vance
Northern Precision's # is 315-493-1711. JD worked up this load in my barrel. Max load is H322 47.5 gr - 350gr NP @ 1814 fps.
Buffalo Bore, Garret and Corbon also load heavy (340gr) hardcast bullets for the .444. I wouldn't rule these out either.

I have a Contender in .444 Marlin and it surely would not be my first choice. I second the notion that if you persist with this way of thinking a reliable fellow with a BIG gun should accompany you as a back-up. I have lots of heavy artillary handguns but without a doubt my .375-06 JDJ would be by my side on such an adventure.

Re-read the first issue of the magazine. Larry W. hunted them with a FA .454 and had a 45-70 T/C laying next to him as backup. That's if I remember correctly.

Just out of curiousity, what velocities are you guys getting with a 275 gr or 300 gr bullet in the 375-06?

Vance, I've been fortunate to take a few bears with the 375 JDJ using 270 grain Hornady spire points at 2070 fps. However I managed to take a really big brown bear with the 375/06 JDJ with the same bullet at approximately 300 fps faster. This would be my choice for a huge brown bear. Of course you could never go wrong with the 375 JDJ. Good luck with whatever you decide. MH

Hi Vance,
To start off with I don't know how you're getting 2100 fps with 270 grain bullets out of your .444 Contender. I presume you have a 14" barrel. You've got a great load. I get 2450 fps with 270 grain TSX's and a bit over 3000 fps with 300g FMJ's.

OOPS! 2300 fps with 300g FMJ's.

Thanks for all the input guys.
1st off, though I've never attempted to take one I had two run ins with large brown bear boars just last year.
Both started out at under 20 yds, & one lasted over a minute (seemed MUCH longer) with the range varying from about 12 yds at the beginning to a max. of about 30 at one point & then back down to 20ish. No shots were fired either time. Both times I had my Mod. 29 with 320s @ about 1325 & man did I feel undergunned!!
All that said just to tell you I have met the beast & respect him GREATLY!
With that said, I do feel comfortable with the .444 for hunting purposes. If I could go pick any barrel I wanted to it probably wouldn't be my 1st choice, but I can't do that.
Mark mentiond taking a few bears with the .375 JDJ, & I know many others have. Obviously the .444 gives up nothing to the .375 JDJ at short ranges. The main problem I see is finding a bullet that will hold up to the bone/muscle mass.
I would consider a heavy hardcast but the maker of my muzzle brake (expansion chamber type) said gas-checks are a no-no with the brake.
I like the .375-06. I have a possible line on a .376 Styer tube for my Encore, but finances make that a someday thing.
But to be honest with you if I'm primarily putting together a brown bear gun I hink I might step up to something over 40 cal.
I don't know how much harder the .444 can be driven from an Encore than my Contender but I would be interested in finding out. At 200 yds I think the 375-06 or Styer would be superior, but at 150 & under I'd rather have a .429 bullet of the same weight at the same velocity if possible. Maybe the .460 S&W would do it with a .458 (better yet).

Interestingly, if you put any stock in the Taylor KO formula, the .444 with a 270 gr @ 2100 produces a value of 34.7. The 375-06 with a 270 produces the same value @ 2400.
The .444 with a 300 @ 2000 has a value of 36.7, & the 375-06 with a 300 produces the same value @ 2300, so by the Taylor formula the .444 & the .375-06 is pretty much apples to apples at short range with the same weight bullets.
Range will change that quickly with the advantage going to he .375 as the range increases of course.

As to my load, I'm using 51.7 gr of AA 1680 with WW primers. Accurate Arms suggested a max of 52.5 IF MEMORY SERVES!! Don't trust that # as I don't have it in front of me, but my load was well under max. & showed no pressure signs. Velocities were 2101, 2110, & 2101 for a 3 shot string. That is a 14" barrel with a David White brake beyond that (yes, it's ugly, but it works!).
Of course you need to atart lower & work up in your gun.

Mark, do or did you live in this part of the country (Alaska)? I'd love to read of your bear hunting adventures if you wouldn't mind sharing, as well as your recomendations for shot placement & the like.

Lastly, believe me, I have no intention of intentionally hunting brown bear with ANY single shot pistol (or for that matter any SS rifle) without proper backup with a rifle of what I consider to be a stopping caliber in the hands of someone I trust.
I bowhunt moose in this country alone with a .44 mag as my backup, & that puts my nerves on edge enough.

I still haven't figured out the picture thing, but would one of you be willing to add a picture of a brownie track with my Contender sitting beside it if I email it to you?

Just out of curiosity what would be wrong with a 330 -335 gr hard cast bullet in that 444 Marlin for that big bear? Say pushed at maybe 1600 or so?
Do you not think it would lay one in the shade if you do your part?
One of the beauties of the Encore in 45/70 is one can push bullets as heavy as 550 gr to around 1500 or 300 gr bullets to slightly over 2000 if you find the right powder.
Of course if you have an aversion to cast bullets that may be why you wouldn't want to use one.
On Garretts site there is much game taken with cast bullets from 45/70"s and 44 Mags using cast.
Just wondering why.

Vance,

"Mark" is the famous Mark Hampton. He's too dang humble to tell you.

Buy his book... "Handgun Hunting" How to travel the World in Pursuit of Wild Game.

Mark isn't a braggart but his book will quickly convince you that he's certainly one of the greatest handgun hunters that's ever lived.

Even if it's just the sheer volume of game he's killed and the fact that he's hunted all over the world including the African big 5 you'll quickly discover that this guy is the real thing.

I have a copy right here and I've read it 3 times and am about half way through my 4th time. Mark has really been there and done it.

$bob$

Meplat, I stated in my long post (makes it easy to miss things) that gas-checks aren't recommended in the brake & I don't want to drive lead that fast without them. Otherwise they would be high on my list.
Thanks though.

Dan, i tried once with no luck but will try again. If still no luck, I'll pass them on.

Bob, thanks for he heads up. I have obviously heard of Mark & will try & get ahold of the book. I have heard of it, but where can it be bought?

Vance, here are 2 auction on e-bay right now for mark's book.

Handgun Hunting

Handgun Hunting

Here is one in an e-bay store for $2.50 with $3.00 shipping.

Handgun Hunting



It is an excellent book with lots of pictures of the game and guns Mark has worked with. I got my copy signed when Mark first released the book.

Vance, I have never lived in Alaska but I envy you because it's truly a wonderful place. My wife and I reside in south Missouri. Just saw a big bobcat at the farm this evening and couldn't get a shot

Vance in AK.,
No, I live in N.C. I've handgun hunted a couple of times in Alaska, taking a couple of Blackies, Caribou, and Wolverine, but my Brown Bears were taken in Russia.

VANCE: I an curious as to why you would feel uncomfortable shooting plain base bullets 1600 to 1700. Do you know something about plain base bullet that I don't know? Let me know as I have been using both types for many many years and have never had a problem except with some Tri Test ammo I bought at a discount store back probaly aroung '70 or '71 that leaded like crazy. I shot 320 gr JDJ bullets in a 444 Marlin Contender barrel I had years ago and never had a problem Maybe I was just lucky.
Even if they do leave a trace of lead how much will you be shooting at that bear anyway? How much load developement will you be doing to say lower the boom on a bear too? Do you need to shoot hundreds of rounds to get a load that would be accurate enough to kill a bear at what maybe 50 yard max?
A Beartooth Bullets plain base 335 gr using H4198 would be a real thumper at 1600 and I feel sure that it may have enough accuracy to kill that demon fur ball at the ranges you will probably take one.
Again let me know the scoop on plain base bullets. I am surley interested to know.
Next If I had a brake I couldn't use GC bullets in I believe I would reconsider getting another brake that I could. Maybe throwing it away and just getting that thing Mag-Na-Ported at least.

Vance,
I sent off an inquiry to Cast Performance regarding gas checked bullet use in ported or compensated barrels and they said that it is perfectly safe to do so. They stated that S&W did extensive testing with gas checked Cast Performance bullets in their .500's and .460's with no problems. I have been using them in my .500 with no issues.

Thanks Tigger
I did a google & purchased new one for $2.50 that you mentioned just before you posted

Mark, it really is a beautiful place to live.

MePlat, when I was shooting the hardcast out of it before I "knew better" I was shooting 320s @ around 2000. Cast Performance said they don't recomend anything over about 1500 fps with a plain base. 1600 might work fine though.

Recoil, the problem is the possibility of the gas-checks coming off & lodging in the brake, & then the next round building exxcesice pressure. I had never even considered this until I had a GC come off & take out my chronograph. I mentioned that to the brake maker & that's when he told me the GCs were a no-no. The odds of it happening might be mighty slim, but I guess from a liability standpoint I can understand his instructions.
I might talk to Cast Performance & see if they "guarantee" their GCs not to seperate. I do like those 300-320s at 2000-2100 fps.

Came up with another possible bullet chopice from Speer.
Their #4463 300gr SP. Their tech guy described it this way. "The 300 gr was made for the guy who wanted "Hard-Cast" performance from a jacketed bullet.".
I think I'll pick up a box & try them.

Thanks for letting me pick your brains & collective years of experience guys.

Belt Mountain makes an interesting jacketed bullet, http://www.beltmountain.com/punch.htm, I saw a review of them and when they collected the bullet and mic'd it, it was still shootable.

Hi Vance,
I doubt that Cast Performance would give you that guarantee and it probably would be meaningless anyhow. It seems to me that all of the forces acting on the bullet until it leaves the muzzle would be trying to keep the gas check slammed up against the base of the bullet. I would not be surprised if there was a separation after that time. Look at it this way, if you are close enough and the bullet does not dispatch the critter maybe the gas check would finish the job. At the very least maybe it would buy you more time for a follow-up shot. Seriously though bottom line is that you must do what your gut tells you. On a more serious note you might look at the .44 bullets at Midway specifically the customer comments. I was looking earlier today. You might check out the Hornady 265 grain interlocks. Lots of good comments about those. They shoot great out of my .444 Contender.

Thanks Cyberhick I'll check them out.
I'll also check out the reviews at Midway.
As to the GC as a second projectile, I was pretty dissapointed in it's performance. Didn't even get total penetration on an old Pro-Tach chronograph!! Maybe 12" max.

On a serious note, I finally got a pic loaded to the gallery, but now can't get it here. How do I do it?

Don't have a clue on that one Vance. Have to defer that question to the more qualified.

Vance, you are getting closer to posting pics in a thread. Lets see if I can explane this. Now that you have a picture uploaded to the web it has an address. To see the address put your curser over the picture and right click it. A small menu should appear. Go to the bottom and click properties, this will bring up the info on the picture. It will tell you the size of the picture and the address. Take your curser and highlight the address, then right click on the highlighted address. This should bring up a small menu. Now click copy, the address is saved and ready to paste. The address for your picture looks like this

http://www.handgunhunt.com/photopost/data/500/DSCF0039.JPG

Now go to the post screen. Just under the dialog box you will see the "Instant UBB Code" menu. Click on the word "IMAGE". A new box at the top of the screen should appear. Right click on the script line and select the paste option when the little menu comes up. This will paste your pictures address. Then hit OK and the address will appear in your text box written in code and will make the picture appear in the post.





PS, Thats a big bear print!!!

OK, I hate to double up with Tigger here (Thanks for the assist bud ) but now that I have his instructions I gotta try it myself.
If this works Tigger you can delete the pic in your post if you like, but leave the instructions for those of us that are still learning.


This is the track of the kind of guys I want to chase with the .444 this spring.
Brown Bear track about 5 miles from my home in Kenai Alaska.
Gun is .444 Marlin Contender, & scope is 9.5" long, so bear is about 10.5'.
I had walked this trail right at dark the night before, & at day break about an hour before I came back & saw this track. It wasn't there the hour before & the brush is THICK along the edges of this old powerline cut. The bear was walking opposite the direction I had walked at daybreak, so I had probably walked past him somewhere, fat, dumb, & happy, just enjoying the sunrise hunt.
Makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up when you think about it a minute.

Take a look at these Cor-Bon loads and see if you can pick them apart.

https://dakotaammo.net/shop/product_info.php?cPath=22_58&products_id=97

They may be able to kill a bear but I am sure there is somnething wrong with them too.

That's quite a compensator you have on that weapon Vance. Looking at it I doubt that I would totally trust a gas check to stay on through that tunnel. And..... looking at the size of that bear track, I THINK YOU NEED A BIGGER GUN.

Let's be honest Recoil, it's a butt ugly compensator , but it works well!!!
I have a friend with a lathe that's going to taper down the area where it meets the barrel & teflon coat it for me this summer. I wouldn't mind trying anotherbrake on it someday as long as I can find one that matches the barrel threads.

Looks like good ammo CorBon has been around for a long tome & has a great reputation. I'll have to give them a call & see what size critters they are recommending it for. Hollowpoints on big animals usually concern me but these are probably designed like Swift's A-Frame hollow point & would work well. Thanks for the link.

Have you tried shooting that hummer without the compensator Vance? The grip you have on there is designed to tame the beast correct? I don't have a brake on mine and it is not at all bad in the recoil department. I will tell you what really helped and that was going to a G2 frame with the rubber grip.

Vance, glad to see you got the picture posting figured out.

Couldn't have done it without you Tigger
I had somehow missed the part about the properties & was trying to post the url in the address section of my screen when the picture was up
I've got it now if I can just remember tomorrow!!!