I was just informed by the guy that rechambered my barrel to 444 & installed the muzzle brake that shootint gas check bullets in it is a dangerous proiposition because of the possibility of a gas check seperating & damaging the brake (kinda wish I'd known that a month ago).
So......... now I'm looking for a jacketed bullet for Alaska moose & black bear. I was shooting a 300 gr cast, so my 1st thought is a 300 jacketed, but I need suggestions quick(did I mention moose season opens Friday?)
Second question, right now I'm using 51.0 gr of 1680 behind the 300 gr cast with no pressure signs, but I also have no data for this powder so I don't know how close to max I am.
How far would you back down the powder charge to start with a 300 gr jacketed(or what ever bullet you would vote for) to keep from running into pressure problems if it was your gun(Contender). You can consider that your disclaimer & liability release . I hate to start at the bottom again .

how bout a 250gr sierra match bullet? it's in the "tournament master" line. it's not only a match bullet, but also for silhoette, and big game hunting.
supposedly has great penetrating power. i've had a box of these sittin around for years, and have not tried em out yet......but i plan to shoot some of em...."one of these days"

check out sierra's web site, email, or even call the 1-800 tech line to see how it works at your velocities. of course they have a 300gr'r also......but i havn't shot it either.

Well Vance one of the toughest Jacketed Bullets I know of would be the 300gr. Sierra Jacketed Soft Point, and would probably be my first choice. As per the powder charge I would probably back down at least a couple grains increasing either in half grain or one grain increments.

I was kind of wondering about the use of Gas Checks in a barrel with a Muzzle Brake, but really didn't know for sure.

Good luck in your quest, and may your crosshairs be steady at the moment of truth.

Larry

Vance,
I've had very good accuracy with the Horn 265 in my 444 Marlin. This bullet was designed for the 444 marlin. It is a very tough bullet....too tough in my experience on whitetails from a pistol length barrel. But, it may be just the ticket for Moose or big bear.
We're all hoping you find the load that you're comfortable with and score big time this season!!!
Cheers,
Dave

Vance,

I'm with Larry here. I am developing loads for my .445 Super Mag for a bull elk hunt this year. I called Sierra and I was told that their 300 gr JSP has a 6% antimony core and it's jacket is .006" thicker than any other .429 bullet. I was motivated to call them because the bullet box calls for them (300s) to be used in pistols only. I assumed this meant .44 Mag type velocities. They assured me (via their tech line) that it could be used safely up to 2000 fps (muzzle). So my choice is for the Sierra's this year.

The Sierra 300s have been very accurate for me. It's also much more pleasant to shoot with max loads than the lighter weight bullets, I can't explain why. I have also played with the Nosler 250 gr. Partitions and the Cast Performance 300 gr. WFNGC but have yet to shoot an elk with one. Maybe we can change that this year?

I think DanB has played with the .444 some. I have not noticed any other posts in the past documenting heavy jacketed pistol type bullets that I could stear you to.

Good Luck

Dan

Thanks for the input guys, but I'm not sure you are making it any easier!
For the quick fix I loaded up some 300 gr cast(the ones I can't use in the 444)(21 gr H-110) 44 mag ammo last night & took my mod 29 with the Ultra Dot out in the rain this morning. At 75 yds I could consistently hit the 10" plate offhand, so that'll do for me. Reminded me how much I enjoy the revolver. Now I may not care if I get the 444 going this season(season runs thru 9-20).
But, for the 444 you guys have me in a quandry. Heavy or light? 300gr or 265 gr(or 280gr). I've always been a fan of heavy bullets in big calibers for max penetration with the "break some bone theory", but a 265 in the lungs at 2300-2400 fps should more than do the trick.... The difference in trajectory between a 300 @ 2100 & a 265 @ 2300 out to 225 yds when sighted in at 150 yds is pretty moot. Hmmmm.... Unfortunately in my area there are only a couple of shops that have reloading supplies, & there hours are kind of spotty & don't always work with mine so it may be a few days before I can get bullets. Plenty of time to ponder.
Meplat, thanks for your input. I do have Speer & Hodgons manuals, & can usually muddle through them OK.
When I said I had no Data I meant Accurate Arms has no data for this powder in this cartridge(although they recomend it for this cartridge under the powder descriptions). I've talked with others that use this powder in this cartridge & used their testing as my beginning point. One gentelman has used it with 300 gr Noslers(?) with as much as 57 gr(comp load) in an Encore with no pressure signs(yes I know a Contender is NOT an Encore). I started with 47 gr & have worked up from there. No flowing or cratering of primers, & the cases fall out without the help of the extractor.
I miked the web area of fired factory loaded cases & have compared my 51.0 gr loads to these. The web diamaters are within .001 of each other. I don't claim to be an expert, but I try not to blow myself up too often. I really do appreciate the input though.

Hi Vance,
I had my .44 Mag 14" Super barrel rechambered for the .444 Marlin by SSK about 3 years ago and I have shot mostly the 265g Hornady's out of it. I have put 500-1000 rounds through it. I have serious concerns if you are getting 2300 fps out of a Contender. Did I miss something here . Do you have a pistol length barrel on your Contender? I thought you had a barrel of around 14". A .375JDJ Contender is lucky to get 2100 fps with Hornady 270g spires. I have had no sticking cases as of yet and I shoot the .444 at max loads. I have chronographed at about 2050 fps. Seems as if you may be pushing this Contender a bit hard. IMHO.

Recoil

Hi Recoil.
I've never shot the 265s, so I'm not claiming any particular velocity from them, just quoting what's been quoted to me by others. How realistic or "optimistic" they are I don't know. In the Tech articles section here Dan B says he got 2050 fps from 300 jacketed bullets with 322.
My chrono is in the shop, but the loads I shot last week (51.0 of AA 1680 behind 300 gr cast) showed NO pressure signs in MY gun. Can't vouch for anyone elses. The guy that got me started with 1680 reports 2240 fps from a 15" Encore with 300 gr jacketed bullets & this powder charge, so I would ASSUME I'm getting 2200+ fps from a 14" with cast(in my limited experience the cast should show enough velocity increase over the jacketed to actually make up for the loss of 1" of barrel). He claims 2400+fps from 57.0 with 300 gr jacketed from the Encore. Again, I didn't have a chrono to run it accross, & now that I've been warned about gas checks & muzzle breaks I'm not going to duplicate it!(although it's tempting to try a couple more just to know).
I would think that the 444 would have a bit more case capacity that a 375 JDJ & thus lower pressures with a like charge. I guess I'm asking, shouldn't a 444 be able to drive a 300 gr faster that the 375(at the muzzle - balistic cofficient not a factor) with like chamber pressures? No shoulder to build pressure & no loss of capacity by necking down? I'm asking not arguing.

Hi Vance,
I just checked my handy dandy Hornady Reloading Manual and they list the 265's as going 2200 fps with a max charge of 51.7g of H322 out of a 24" barrel. I reckon I am just going by the advice that I read. They also list 300g XTP's as going 2100 fps out of the same 24" barrel ahead of a max charge of 49g of 322. I also know that the Contender cannot handle anywhere near the charges that the Encore can.

Recoil

I agree with you on the Encore vs Contender pressures. Encore data can kill a Contender no doubt.
I had to run to town & while I was thete I picked up some Speer 270s. I think I'll try & work something up with them. Anyone have any data for 270s & 1680?

I've used the 300 XTP with good success, but I don't think I got much expansion from it, at least not on deer. I'm not sure about the mbrake-damage issue. Smith and Wesson doesn't caveat gas checks in any of their .500 guns, but I really don't know. Honestly, I don;t think gas checks come off that easily as all teh pressure is behind it, and as it passes teh brake, the brake is slightly larger diameter. What could possibly force it off? My luck, one would come off and be a barrel obstruction!! Good luck. There are many good jacketed bullets out there for you!!

I would just leave the gas check off. I've been shooting the old SSK 317 gr cast out of Lyman #2 with no leading problems. Jacketed? J.D. Says the 300 Sierra is to soft for big stuff. Larry Kelly shot one of his Brown Bear and a Moose with 250gr Hornady Sihouette bullet. Sierra says their 250gr Silhouette is also a hard hitting, deep penetrator for Bears, etc. I shot 2 whitetails in the 150Lb range with complete penetration from front of chest through rear hip with my 444 and 265gr Hornady and it did not open up. It did kill very well though. Good luck.

Thanks for the help guys. Anybody have a favorite heavy hunting load for 270s they'd care to share? I'd love to work something up with the 1680(seems to have real potential for this cartridge), but I'll listen to anything! I have H-4895 & H-335 on hand.
Of the two Hodgon shows 335 with the best velocity(by far) from a 15" barrel. 2102 fps with 55.8 gr. My Speer manual is the #12 & doesn't have the 270 gr bullet in it. Can anyone give me Speers load data for the 270 Gold Dot FP & H-335?
Thanks guys.

Here's a reply I got from the tech guys at Accurate Arms about my loads today. Great service from them by the way, as I made the inquiry after hours last nigt.

"Vance,
You can use the same loads for the jacketed bullets.
i.e. Jacketed bullets usually have a lower friction co-efficient than
the lead bullet.
1680 is an excellent powder for the 44Marlin and is inherently well
balanced.
This means that the ballistics maximum loads usually ends up being at
100% LD irrespective of the bullet weight.
Your load of 51.0grans with the 300gr lead bullet proves that.
Estimated LD between 105 to 108%
Taking into account the available volume with the lighter bullets we
suggest the following.
265/270gr
Maximum load: 53.0grains = Compressed."
"The Accurate Arms Company, Inc. disclaims all possible liability for
damages including, actual, incidental and consequential, resulting from
usage of the information or advice contained in this message.
Use the data and advice at your own risk, and with extreme caution."(figured since they supplied the info the least I could do is throw in their disclaimer).

In a seperate letter he stated that the 51.0 gr load with 300 gr cast bullet should pose no pressure problems.

I'll back down from their max as normal to start.
By the way, I did tell them specifically that the cartridge was chambered in a Contender.

Post deleted by MePlat

Hi MePlat.
First off, I want to tell you that I pray for you. I mean that(I'm a pastor... I can't help it ). Usually when someone is as growly & cantankerous as you are it's because they have no joy in their life, & I think that's a horrible thing.
Now, that aside, my posting doesn't revolve around responding to you.
I posted the info from AA because I know there are several others on here that have handguns chambered in .444 and might be interested. Generaly when people get into specialty handguns, especially when they get into non factory calibers like you, I, & most others on here, they enjoying testing new combinations, & I feel good data is always helpful. You were only one of several posters on the subject.
You've got me by a little over 10 years on the reloading experience end, & it sounds like you've reloaded a much broader spectrum of calibers than I, & I respect your knowledge & experience. As I stated, I worked up to the load levels I was using carefully, & with as much "precision & science" as I know how to apply without pressure testing equipment. I've never damaged a gun with handloads & hope I never do.
As far as the claims of others for performance levels, I usually don't call any man a liar until I prove him wrong, but I will say some folks seem very... "optomistic", & I have a "show me" attitude for the most part.
I do like to have something to work toward on a load that I intend to use on big game, & that's usually a combination of velocity & accuracy.
I don't see how anything I said could be taken to mean that I believe I am somehow brighter than you, or more knowledgeable than you, & I've never questioned your IQ, (although I can't say that I've never questioned your motives).
If I somehow called your intelligence into question or otherwise offended you I apologize. I didn't intend to do that
Now I'm trying to get this picture out of my head.
It's you in nothing but a welding hood & a diaper, standing on the firing line holding a Contender....
Dang,.... it's kind of like when you get a song stuck in your head.
I seriously hope you have a good evening.
And I honestly respect your knowledge.

vance i say put your diaper on,get the welding helmet out and hammer down no guts,no glory!talk about a hunting outfit,all jokes aside...opinions are like butt holes...every one has one,some make alot of noise and some dont !i never realized that a iq test consisted of choosing a bullet for a 444 marlin (your a sneeky one vance if proffesor plat hadnt caught it i know i would have missed it .we all visit here to learn and lend a helping hand to others that enjoy the sport of handgun hunting,smooth out your feathers and enjoy your time here,hunting has all the negative help that it needs today without arguing amongst the ranks.jim257(by the way,i dont preach brother plat )

Believe me Jim, the last thing you want to see, in the woods or on the line, would be me in a diaper!!!
You, your lunch, & the moose would all be on the run!! A sight you'd never forget, even without the helmet.
Just walked in the house after loading up the 1st 270 gr Speer so I could see how the overall length works. I seated about .030 short of the cannelure to get max overall length(thinking the less base in the case(within reason. I have almost a full dia.), the lower the pressure as long as the bullet isn't into the rifeling. Is this theory sound?).
I could probably go another .030 away from the cannelure & still not be tightsince the 270 gr. Speer has a fairly narrow meplat. I'll experiement with max overall length for this bullet & chamber tommorow).
Try & load up a few more & try them after my chrono gets back(hopefully tommorow).
Have a good night guys, & thanks for the help.

Went to the range today to do some hunting season prep work with my .375 JDJ Contender and my .375-06 JDJ Encore. With all of this .444 talk I decided to bring along my Super 14" untamed .444 barrel mounted in my G2 frame. I bought a bunch of blem 265g Hornady's a few years back so I was using them. I tried H335 for the first time in my .444 and was I impressed . I was using 56g of H335. My groups were 1-1.5 minutes. I had the best groups that I have ever gotten. You might want to give H335 a try during your load development process Vance. I'm not sure how it would work on heavier bullets but 270's would probably work great with H335.

Recoil

Thanks for the info Recoil.
I'll give the 335 a try with the 270s. I tried it with 320s & wasn't getting the velocity I was looking for so I quit, so I have some on hand. Did you chronograph your loads?
One other question for those in the know. Do the original Contender & the G2 have the same max pressure rating, or is the G2 higher?
I'll let you know what I find out as far as loads. Hopefully my chrono will be back today. The USPS sems to be in no hurry.

No Vance I have not chronographed the 265's using the H335. I already knew what my two .375's were doing so I did not bother to drag the Chrony along. Actually I had limited time so I did not want to take the extra time to set the Chrony up. I do not at this point plan on using the .444 for elk especially since I have that sweet stainless .375-06 JDJ Encore. As far as strength of the Contender frame compared with the G2 frame JD mentioned that he thought the frame was stronger in the G2 but Thompson Center won't attest to that fact. I was very impressed with the acccuracy of the .444 with 265's using H335 however. Got to have a good blend of accuracy and velocity. I feel as though accuracy is the most important. It don't matter how fast the bullet is going if you get a bad shot in.

Recoil