How many of you have killed elk with the 44 and at what range? Suggestions on bullet choices?

Thanks,

Rich

Big ones ;-)

I haven't hunted elk with a 44 but I have alot of elk hunting experience and I'd say this, with cast bullets go with a good quality hard cast in about the 300gr range with the widest meplat you can find or if you prefer jacketed go with the Nosler Partition or one of the hawk customs and keep your shots within a 100yds and preferably 50yds.

I have a mould for a 336 gr swcgc. Think that would work with a healthy dose of H110?

I agree, just make sure they are sufficiently hard, I don't cast so I don't remember the correct mixture of tin and lead but I'm sure I'm not telling you anything new.

Thanks for the info and keep it coming. I am going to go with the handgun hunting thing. It's the only type of hunting that I haven't killed any big game at so I want to have as much info as I can before I set out next year.

MR. WapitiRod, don't over do that wrist.

Rich

Rib, I`ve only taken 2 elk in my life, one with a rifle and one with my 454,however with your choice of caliber I would say that the advice from Wapitirod is the way to go. Good luck....

For elk inside a 100yds, your .44 and a 300gr(+)bullet will do fine.

I just Loaded some 320 grain WFNGC 44 mags myself for this elk season with a stiff load of 296. Plan is to keep it well within 100 yards. Anything 300 grains+ should more than do the trick. I'd stick with hardcast though.

PS. Where in Idaho?

Boise. Right on the edge of Eagle and Boise.You?

Interesting topic. I've been trying to develop a good.44mag load for moose, and if I succeed I guess this will do it for elk as well. The best results so far have been with a 270gr Belt Mtn "Punch" bullet, a brass bullet with a lead fill in the base of the bullet. Almost a solid and extremely hard - @ about 1150fps it zipped through 79 cms, or over 31" of compressed wet telephone directories. I take it few elks have a rib cage of more than 31" in diameter.

However, states like Colorado demand an expanding bullet for elk hunting (which is kind of stupid since the meplat of a .430 bullet is quite comparable to an expanded rifle bullet in .30 or the like. So I guess I need to do more testing with the 300gr Sierra JSP, but they are of course impossible to buy currently...the Obama effect in its purest form.....

A belt mountain is a "hollow point" according to their site, and could be legal in states that require them. I'm not sure how colorado words the law, It might be worth calling someone in colorado DFG and trying to find out.

I use a Lee 310 cast wfngc (wide flat nose gas check )in my 44s. My alloy, when drop into water from the mold ( water quenched ) runs about 19 Brinell. Several weeks after casting, I annneal the nose by placing the bullet (base first)in a pan filled with water to the level of the crimp groove; and, then I aneal the nose with a butane torch. You must heat the nose only to a "blueish" color change and remove the heat and let air cool. The heat treatment softens the nose to about 8-9 Brinell. When shooting game, the nose expands and the "harder" base remains intact. The bullet functions just like a Nosler Partition for a fraction of the cost. I've taken 7 elk, many deer, and antelope of various sizes with these bullets, with max penetration and good wound channels.

I've looked at the lee moulds, but was a little hesitant of the alluminum. What diameter do your bullets come out of the water at? What mix is your alloy?

Thanks,
Rich

Well, from a very technical perspective the bullet is a hollow point, since it has one very tiny hole in the top of it, but my understanding is that this is made to avoid federal legislation against "armor piercing" bullets. A FMJ brass bullet would not be legal for civilian possession in the U.S., as I understand it, since it would be an AP bullet according to the definition in federal law. The tiny hole in the bullet's top makes it a JHP legally.

So the bullet is a JHP also technically, but certainly not designed for expansion. It's almost a brass solid, with a small lead core in the back of the bullet. I don't expect this bullet to expand at all short of being fired into a substantial rock. The CO DFG brochure says that a handgun bullet legal for big game must "use a min. .24-caliber (6 mm) diameter expanding bullet." I doubt very much that this would include the Belt Mtn bullets, unfortunately. However, since it is a hollowpoint, and hollowpoints are normally regarded as expanding bullets, I don't know whether a CO game warden would bother. Seems to be a bit to risky though, if you've spent a small fortune on a guided elk hunt you don't want to blow it. At least I don't.

the Lee molds are great, the aluminum moldsheat up faster than iron or mechanite, however, the don't hold the heat as long. If you follow the directions that Lee provides, they work great. I tend to run them a little hotter than the iron molds. I have cast thousands of bullets from 20 or so Lee molds for the last 40 years with no complaints. The alloy that I use is from medical nuclear med reagent containers. I was told that they are pure lead; however, they must be a composite, the Brinell is 16-17. Perfect for my casting needs. I've run bullets cast from this allow from approx 600 fps to 2300 fps with Lee lube and no fouling issues.

rlb,

forgot, the molds I have, have an as cast diameter of 0.430 with my alloy.

Regarding .44 hunting in CO, I mailed the responsible people and got the following replies. There seems to be quite a few strange issues in CO hunting legislation, IMHO.


Dear Mike,

Thank you for your email.

In order to be legal, your cartridge must meet the legal energy
requirements, "Must use a cartridge or load that produces min. energy
of 550-ft.lbs. at 50 yds. as rated by manufacturer. Use a .24 caliber or
larger diameter expanding bullet."

If you are stopped in the field by an officer, you must provide the
manufacturer's ratings. This may also be actual reloading tables by a
manufacturer.

Please feel free to contact us if you have any further questions.

V/R

Wandee Kirkland
Colorado Division of Wildlife
Denver Call Center
303.297.1192
wandee.kirkland@state.co.us

Dear Wandee,

thanks for your swift reply. It generates, however, a couple
additional questions:

1) If I handload my ammunition at home, which I normally
do, would my own ratings after chonograph testing etc qualify as
ratings by the "manufacturer"? Or do I have to use commercial factory
loads when hunting in CO? My loads are not necessarily identical with
those in reloading manuals.

2) How much must a bullet expand to be legal for hunting in CO? As I
mentioned in my first message, I would like to know if a Belt Mountain
"Punch" brass/lead hollowpoint bullet in cal. 430 would qualify as
"expanding". This bullet is a hollowpoint, a type of bullet generally
designed for expansion, but this one has penetration as its primary
design goal. But it is still a hollowpoint. Would be interesting to know if this would be considered
legal for hunting in CO.

Sincerely,

Mike Winnerstig

Mike,

For your first question, the regulations state that it must be a manufacturer. If you handload, you'd need to provide something from a manufacturer stating the energy generated by the load. If you're not exactly loading it the same, I'd suggest carrying the closest manufacturer load to yours that meets the energy requirement while in the field.

For the bullet expansion, there is no standard measurement of expansion. The bullet would just need to be labeled as an expanding bullet by the manufacturer. Solids and FMJ are not allowed.

V/R

Wandee Kirkland
Colorado Division of Wildlife
Denver Call Center
303.297.1192
wandee.kirkland@state.co.us

Mike,

I would say go hunt in another state. I can't believ some of the weird stuff coming out of Colorado these days.

Good Luck.

Mike,


Not that I've ever harvested an elk myself, nor have I ever hunted in Colorado. But, I can't fathom not being able to cleanly kill elk with a proper heavy bullet in .44 magnum, provided the distance was of reasonable revolver standards, and good shot placement (ie: right in the boiler room!). I have thumped some "very" large New Hampshire whitetail bucks with 270 grain jacketed softpoints, and 300 grain castcores. Now, I'm fully aware that elk can run a size and weight twice that of even very large New Hampshire whitetails (220 - 250 lbs.). However, I did indeed manage to drill a hole completely through every one of those I actually hit (I've missed a few -

) and have yet to recover one of those heavy bullets. This leads me to believe that I can make a somewhat unqualified statement (unqualified based on the fact that I've never actually shot an elk) that my choice of bullets to thump big whitetails for the past 25 years would likely give acceptable results under similar circumstances should I ever wish to hunt elk with a .44 magnum. The point that I guess I'm trying to make is ...

Ditto to rlb's response above!

Renster

rlb and Renster,

thanks for your replies. I do spend some time pretty regularly in the Granite State - whose motto I love - and I would actually prefer to hunt moose there with my .44 than going all the way to CO for elk under their strange regulations. But then I need to get a tag from that darned moose lottery you have...and this will take some years, I just started this year...

Live free or die!

Mike,

There are plenty of elk oppurunities here in Idaho. You might want to check them out at fishandgame.idaho.gov

Good Luck

Mike,

Outstanding that you have put in for the moose lottery!

Incidentally, I have been bird hunting the great north woods area (Pittsburg) every October for the past 17 years, and have seen literally hundreds of moose up close and personal. I can tell you (with a "qualified" statement) that I would not hesitate to drill the largest moose with my .44 magnum , again provided that I was well within my comfort range. I don't think there are any Colorado elk that come close to the size of New Hampshire's north woods bulls! And, F&G do not limit us to "expanding" bullets on such animals. In fact, quite the contrary, and I don't personally know anyone up here who would tolerate F&G mandating the use any type of a hollow point on big game. (F&G holds 3 public meetings per year to recieve sportsman input/critique on regulations) Now, some do utilize jacketed bullets designed to mushroom, or "expand" as such. I myself prefer the plain jane Remington 150 gr corelokt in my .308 rifle. Many others prefer the 180's and above. But like most fellas on this forum, we northern hunters exercise common sense and believe in hitting big game HARD with handguns, and New Hampshire F&G does not debate that type of common sense. Something that apparently is lacking at Colorado F&G.

Take Care Mike, and good luck in the lottery!

Hmm....and the Elmer Keith museum at the Boise, ID, Cabela's, right? Many good reasons to go to ID, have never been there....though I would need a good outfitter for the hunt. feel free to send me a PM if you know any.

Renster,

your description of NH common sense fits my experiences with northern New England very well. The chance to get a nonresident moose tag is very small though, but I will continue to throw my hat in the ring...

I feel that the .44 270gr Belt Mtn Punch bullet would be very good medicine for a NH bull. If it drills through 31" of dense wet phone directories it will work for the biggest bulls there. Given a correct shot placement within 80-100 yards or so.

A Colorado boy myself for 53 years, I can not totally disagree with what is being said about some of our DOW's policies/rulings.

However, if you watch my soon-to-be-released Handgun Hunting DVD, you will see several examples on how an individual can help change/influence the hunting laws and regulations of one's own state...

As far as the expanding bullet regulation, it is interesting to note that for muzzleloaders, there is no such bullet requirement on elk, just a minimum caliber of .50 and minimum bullet weight of 170 grains, here in Colorado.

And muzzleloading pistols are legal to hunt big game with during the general rifle seasons. So there you have a handgun that is legal to use for elk that may shoot a non-expanding bullet.

Another "gap" in the regulations that does not seem to make sense.

I have not killed any elk with a .44 mag, but have killed 2 bulls with the .454 Casull, both with the Freedom Arms 260 gr. jacketed bullet. I recovered both bullets; they expanded nicely to .56" and .68".

I have killed one bull with my Encore Muzzleloader 50 cal. with a T/C 320 gr. Maxiball, which is "close" to a cast slug. I recovered the bullet just under the hide on the opposite side. It flattened him. It had expanded slightly to about .55 cal.

Hope this helps.

I have taken 2 elk using my Dan Wesson 44mag VH revolver with open sites. One was shot at 50 yrds and the other at 65 yrds. Both were taken using 340 grain Buffalo Bore cartriges. This was on par with taking whitetail with a bow. Like anything pratice alot.

Elmer keith loved the 44. nuff said.

Yes, my dad and mother both lived in Salmon, ID. when Elmer was there and from what I gather from talking to family and friends up there and both of my parents is he was a great writer and the rest was mostly, well you know.

It would be interesting to compare the penetration/expansion characteristics between some well known jacketed 300's. Speer PSP, Sierra JSP, & Swift A-Frame. As far as I know all but the Swift are commercially loaded. Sierra Cor-Bon, & Speer Buffalo Bore. Gotta be some on this site who have collectively used all 3.