Those of you who are restricted to straightwall cartridges for deer hunting, is there also a max length restriction in your state/area? Are you required to use factory ammo or a "commercial" cartridge (non-wildcat) in your area?

Ohio: We have to use a (1)straight walled cartridge in a (2) 357 or larger. Length and origin is not mentioned. And we have to have a (3) 5" barrel or longer.
Three regulations on whitetail hunting with a handgun. I have never seen restrictions on anything else besides Turkey where we can not use them.

In Michigan in the rifle zone you can use what ever caliber you want. In the shotgun zone here is what the DNR regualtions say:

A conventional (smokeless powder) handgun must be .35 caliber or larger and loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be single- or multiple-shot but cannot exceed a maximum capacity of nine rounds in the barrel and magazine combined

I just fail to understand why these morons in the game departments feel compelled to restrict a handgun barrel length. It just shows how ignorant they are about firearms.

IMO, I think the word "Handgun" is what they are looking at. The short barreled automatics are not the most acurate unless you have the muzzle pressed up against the intended target. Therefore this part of the regs helps to discourage the use of them. I know I feel better that the personal defense guns stay at home or in a holster while in the woods. We don't need a bunch of cripled animals running around because someone thought they could make a 50 yard shot with a 4" .45 ACP.

rlb, we may have to disagree on this one. It's the same concept that all gun owners are punished because of the actions of the few. Someone who is going to do something unethical will do it regardless of what they are hunting with (I am not implying that a 50 yard shot with a semi-auto is unethical). I do agree that they see the word handgun and feel compelled to regulate even if they haven't a clue what they are doing.

Yes the word Handgun in their wingnutted minds unfortunately brings to mind the ones found in the city and suburbs. See the fish and game departments all around the country have been drifted so far away from hiring outdoor people for so many years that they only hire the college degree people even if they aren't outdoor people. Thus the stupid restrictions. I can't even get them on my side when I have traps stolen or destroyed. Our county deputies are closer to ethical fish and game officers than most of the F&G officers. That's pretty sad when I grew up hunting with a F&G officer and he was as good a guy as you would ever want to meet. They are mostly gone now.

Gary, I couldn't agree with you more:

"morons in the game departments..."

"Someone who is going to do something unethical will do it regardless of what they are hunting with."

Case in point: In a recent hunting video, there was a scene where an ethical hunter dropped a nice buck with a Contender, and then walked up on it and it jumped up and he had his semi-auto a lot handier than the 14" long barreled scoped Contender. So he shot the buck before it got 5 feet with the semi-auto and finished it off:

"Coup De Grace." Definition from Google:

"coup de grace - the blow that kills (usually mercifully)"

Came to find out later that what the hunter did was illegal because the coup de grace was made with a cartridge not meeting the legal minimum requirements in that state. In other words it would have been perfectly legal to let the buck run off (but of course follow it up later) BUT illegal to dispatch it cleanly with the semi-auto.

I've gone around with fish and wildlife and the port authority here because certain areas are muzzle loader and shotgun only during the general firearm season and I've tried to explain to them that a straight wall pistol cartridge will not go any further than a modern slug gun or in line muzzle loader but they can't seem to understand ballistics. All they have to do is limit it to straight wall pistol cartridges in single shot or revolving firearms and put in wording to not allow bottle neck or straight wall cartridges originally intended for rifle use. I am lucky that in general oregon only has a caliber limitation of .22 centerfire for deer sized animals and black bear and .24 or larger for elk, sheep, and mountain goat.

I have tyo agree with this as well i often use a 45acp, for deer and yes if you know the linitations of the cartridge you can cleanly take deer with it at 50yrds, also the Vice President of SIG Sauer uses a 3 1/2" barrel SIG P228 in 357sig to hunt whitetails every year, Hell the 10mm is one of the best inside 100yrd calibers to use for deer.
The restrictions put on handguns are by those in power who dont know enough to understand what they are capeble of, hell here in P.A. we cant even use a Semi-Auto to hunt anything. its a joke and these morons who run these game departments need to get run out of town and we need people whoi know what they are talking about.

As for short barreled autos not being accurate that is just mind boggling that someone would still think this, i have seen and own some semi-autos that will out shoot any single shot on the planet, sorry but it is a fact. now that all being said i still grab my contender when i go hunting but i also take my S&W 625 in .45acp, with a 3" barrel and have taken quit a few doe with it. its all shot placement even with a short barrel pistol.

Ask Ted Nugent if semi auto 10mm is not humane to use in hunting. Oh yeah it smokes....

Ok, Lets say you put the 45 in the hands of everyone you run into hunting this season during any rifle, shotgun or archery season. How many of them do you really think would be able to make a clean 50 yard shot with it. The trouble with this is they have to consider the Joe that picks up a gun, shoots a few rounds through it and heads to the woods where you are. Are you going to feel comfy with him shooting at your deer at distance with that 45 or whatever gun he got? I'm not going to side with the game department, but I would feel better that "Joe Minute Of Pie Plate" doesn't go out there with a short barreled gun and wound deer until he gets one killed. Someone informed and skilled with a handgun like yourself doesn't bother me it's the other wingnuts that do and we all know there is more of them than there is of us.

rlb, I think we understand your concern but it's the same argument that can be made against any type of firearm or bow. Put a bow in the hands of "everyone" you run into this season and I'm betting the results would be similar. How many are wounded by shotgunners using buckshot every year when deer are shot at too far away? I personally don't believe you can regulate ethical hunting. I think many laws relating to the use of firearms for hunting have more to do with the personal prejudices of those making the laws than anything else.

Gentelmen we have a winner, thank you Gary for Putting to words what i was trying to say. you hit it right on the head with this statement.

Scott

actually we are all losers because of the fact that there are laws like this on the books, whether they are there because of prejudices against firearms, handguns, bows or hunters or because of the number of idiots hunting unethically or unsafely we all lose and alot of it is our own fault. We've let in politicians that are anti gun/anti hunting and when the anti gunners are organized we are not. We don't do enough to keep idiots out of the woods, whether it's reporting bubba downing a half case while running around with a loaded weapon or calling fish and game and turning in license plates of unethical hunters or maybe even doing like some states and other countries as well as individual outfitters and put into place a competency test with your chosen weapon. Something else that I too fail at is attending the meetings with your dnr or fish and wildlife agencies, in Oregon every year they have meetings open to the public to get input from the public on proposed changes in regulations. You can also belong to state hunting organizations that are active in this process but most of all come election time try and elect reps that understand the needs of hunters. They have been trying to reverse the dog and bait bans here in Oregon for several years but the democratic majority always finds a reason to stone wall it. That mess is what happens when wildlife management is taken out of the hands of the biologist and put in the hands of voters most of which don't hunt and when they see a well organized campaign showing a bear being overrun by dogs when it dropped wounded out of tree it doesn't take long to turn fence sitters against us. Anyways just a thought on bad regs in general.

Well that just pegged my BS-o-meter!

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I really hope you are just trying to make case using an intense over statement.
If you really believe that you own and or others own semi-auto handguns that can out-shoot (I assume you mean as accurate or more accurate) single-shot handguns, then I do not know what to think.

Hopefully, you are only comparing straight-wall cartridges only.

Please, tell me what group size your straight-wall case semi-autos can do for 5-shot groups consistently @ 100 yards?

If I was a betting man, my MOA Maximum (straight-wall cartridge) will wipe your semi-autos out. Whether you want it at 100, 200, 300, or 400 yards, or all of the above, it is fine with me.
Even with a prototype FA single-shot pistol (Straight-wall case)I hit steel at 500 yards 4 out 5 times with a gun I had never shot before, it had a heavy 3 pound trigger, and we had run out of scope adjustment for wind and elevation on the scope so we were holding off to boot.

I have a very accurate 1911, but on its best day it doesn't stand a chance of touching the two single-shot pistols I am talking about.

If, you are talking about any single-shot pistol in any cartridge (bottle-neck cartridge) then, if you can shoot your semi-auto better than .1 or 1/10th of an inch group at 100 yards or under 1.5 inches at 600 yards, then I got to see that gun shoot.

ME TOO!!!

well......even a good ol TC SINGLE SHOT can do better than 5 under a 1/2" at 100yrds. i'd like to see a semi auto do that! i'd even give a couple bucks for admission.

The Inevitable Effect Of Over-Grown Bloated Government Bureaucracy * * *

Facts and legends, and I guess I'd have to see that fact with my own two eyes.

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