??????...But you ARE qualifying your answer with a PARAMETER! ie: big bears...

There plenty of reasons to use the HP Jacketed bullets on other game as the better choices...

No PARAMETERS EQUALS NO LOGICAL CHOICE, imo.

Perhaps if you are starting out at .429 diameter and thin-skinned game like deer. Hardcast bullets with big meplats do a lot of damage. I like expanding bullets for the .44 mag on thin-skinned game -- works like a charm, but I don't think a person is handicapped with a flat-nosed hardcast hunting any game -- particularly when penetration is paramount.

It is very simple for me I hate all that wax junk and the excess smoke.

I do shoot some cast bullets but mostly for targets-- with the exception of my 625 45 Colt I use a 250gr HC bullet for it.

The other reason is I can not seem to get cast bullets to shoot as well as the XTP and such in most of my guns.

CAST!!!!!!!!!!!! XTP Pish Posh

Reluctantly Cast given a XTP type HP.

I'm going to do my best to take my bull (elk) with eith my Reeder 475 or the 454 I built this year using XTP Mags because I still think alot of you don't understand this is no normal hollow point that expands on impact(I am talking strictly about the Mags not the standard XTP, there is a massive difference). I shot down a roughly 100' ponderosa pine a few years ago over a period of 6 months or so because my target board was positioned in front of it putting the bullseye cosistently in the same spot. When the tree fell I recovered some .458 500gr Hornady sp's, .475 425gr CP's, .475 400gr XTP Mags and a few various other bullets. Now I realize this isn't real scientific but the XTP's were completely in tact and had barely started to expand, the CP's could just about be reloaded again and .458 stuff was well mushroomed. The other thing was penetration with the XTP was just about equal to the CP's. I am not a "cast hater", like I said I load a few. I have some 425's loaded for my short barreled .475 and of course my 3" barreled 500 with the thought being if I ever get to Alaska or Africa the extra penetration from awkward angles in a self defense shot would be nice but on an ethical broadside shot I don't think the XTP would fell at it's job. I had heard of Cape Buffalo being taken with them and being curious I called Hornady and the guy on the other end without hesitation said if I did my job the bullet would do it's. The discussion was on a 2nd high fence aisian buff hunt I had planned but had to cancel. One last point as stated above I too have had a hard time getting cast to shoot as accurately as the XTP's.

Not wanting to cause a stink but in my head if a XTP doesn't mushroom then it acts like a HC with clothes.So in that aspect the most accurate would be the best.

Someone else said it best,this is a debate that could never be settled,shoot what trips your trigger and keep on keepin on!!

Snyd. That 355gr boolit looks great. What brand and model is the mould?

yep there is no end to it I personally just like anything that goes boom!

It's a custom LBT mould made by Veral Smith. I bought it from a guy who had Veral make it for him. He wanted a bigger metplat then what Veral normally makes. I just got a load worked up and dialed it in my 45 Colt SBH Bisley Hunter. 1 inch 3 shot group at 50yds, 2 inch group for 6 rounds, 1200fps. Next stop, blackies with any kind of luck.

Wapitirod, thanks for the info on the XTP mags. I'll have to see what the 300gr .452's are that I have. A guy gave em to me about a year ago. Maybe I'll have to see what they do in my 454 levergun pushed hard.

Lead free area...

I have been shooting heavy cast in my 45 LC since I got it but just got some XTP Mags to try. The Beartooth 300grn Gas Check shoots great from my Ruger Super Blackhawk Hunter. I want accuracy for my pistol. Only hunt whitetails and pigs right now.

On Tuesdays when the moon is full..

The MAGS are made for higher velocities, to be less deformed by magnum loads, correct?

Muzzleloader general consensus is that the MAGS don't perform (accuracy) as well as the normal HP/XTP's, but that's a whole different story.

This is a long post, so if you're tired of this thread alreay, you may want to skip it.

OK, Calling the ballots at 10 CAST to 17 XTP. The discussions have started now, so I figure we can move on to more specifics. I must say I am surprised, given the discussions in other threads about cast bullets, but I did this to draw out those who may not participate in those threads, and it seems to have worked.

So, if you haven't already figured it out, this is my way to pick your collective brain for your personal experiences with these choices. I am a guy who values the counsel of those more experienced and more wise than I.

I started this with a straight-up "if you had to pick one" poll because people tend to choose what works best for them when pressed. There are a lot of reasons for this, and we have already heard some. Accuracy, "don't like the smoke and smell", expansion vs. non-expansion, "it depends on the quarry", "it depends on the caliber", etc.

Smoke and Smell: This is an interesting point I hadn't been aware of. An unpleasant shooting experience might lead to less practice I suppose.

Caliber: Not surprisingly (to me), those who use the bigger bore's tend to use cast bullets, which on the surface seems sensible because the cost of large bore (.475 and .500) jacketed bullets is in play (.60 - $1 each). I'm sure you may have other more practical reasons. For example some have already commented that the .475 and .500 caliber hole is plenty big to do the damage needed for a humane kill. Makes perfect sense to me. Why spend $2-$3 a shot when $1-$2 will do the job?

For smaller calibers, in my case .44 mag, jacketed bullets are not as cost prohibitive, so in my mind they become a valid choice. Now I have two worthwhile categories to choose from.

Quarry: I feel that I understand the choice of heavy non-expanding bullets for large/dangerous game. There is plenty of safari experience to back up that choice. From what I have seen here for "normal" big game, in my case Eastern Whitetails, there is a split between cast vs. hollow-point, with most people defending their choice with actual experience. In my mind then, that's sort of a toss-up. Again, I am left with two valid choices.

Expansion: This seems to be an age-old debate, and I am not sure that there will ever be a consensus. I have taken in all of the reasons on both sides (and multiple forums), and we have seen pictures on the Bragging Board using both bullet styles, and both types cause devastating results for the quarry. As was pointed out, all jacketed expanding bullets are not the same, and I think that's a really interesting story to follow. I'll be interested to hear how the XTP MAG experiment turns out this season. In my mind, again, I am left with a toss-up for my particular quarry and caliber.

Accuracy: I tend to pay particular attention to this point, because as I get to know you better, I find that almost to a person, we all agree that shot placement is king, and that there is no substitute for it, regardless of caliber or bullet weight/style. Is that a fair assessment?

I imagine some of the cast bullet folks have also worked up very accurate loads that they are happy with, so this may extend to an "in my particular revolver" decision for me. My initial choices of cannon fodder are both cast SWC's and jacketed SP's so we'll see if they show any significant difference in my revolver.

Of course, as you always say, "reload so you can tailor your loads for accuracy" and I am sitting here looking out the window waiting for FedEx to arrive with my Lee Turret Press kit. I have already taken that advice.

OK, so I have really made very little headway here, except for the comments that indicate that they get better accuracy from the "XTP" style bullets.

Where have I made a mis-step or what have I mis-interpreted?

Teach me.

guitarpicva,

I do not believe that you have misunderstood anything, rather the exact opposite --- you understand. Either type projectile will work and both have their proponents for various reasons. It becomes a personal choice --- which do you like better for a specific application.

I voted for the XTP because your question was to "Pick one if you could only have one." The reason that I would pick XTP if I could only have one is accuracy. I have never been able to shoot the groups with cast bullets that I can shoot with XTPs in my revolvers. In fact, except for some GDs, I cannot get the groups from the other jacketed bullets that I have tried that I get with XTPs.

I burn many many more rounds at my little range "pinging the steel" than I do hunting. Therefore, for me better accuracy is the key. Hopefully, this carries over to my hunting experiences (with the right revolver in my hand loaded with XTPs, I do not hesitate to take a shot at the throat of an animal standing facing me 100 yds away).

Good testimonial...thanks.

I think the XTP has its place in hunting. That said, if I were allowed only one bullet, that would be the one that is able to punch through a large animal given whatever angle -- for me, that one bullet is a hardcast flat-nose. As has been discussed ad nauseum, I don't feel the need for any expansion when I am starting out at .475 - .510 caliber. The bullet I shoot in my .475 was designed by a friend of mine. I have never recovered one. The bullet is capable of under one-inch at 50 yards if I do my part. That is outstanding for any bullet IMHO. Accuracy is extremely important and always important no matter what bullet you choose. I don't shoot cast bullets that don't provide me with acceptable accuracy.

JMHO.

A few guys have posted that they use XTP's cuz they are more accurate than cast in their guns. It's important to point out that one cannot say "jacketed bullets are more accurate than cast boolits". I recently worked up a load with my 355gr WFN that is capable of one ragged hole at 50yds out of my 7.5 SBH with a scope. I am convinced the combo can shoot better than I can.

I shoot numerous 45 Colt and 454 Casull cast boolit loads from plinkers to whoppers in my Puma 454 levergun. That gun consistently shoots one ragged hole with 10 round groups at 25-50 with open sites. I have put 3 in 3 inches at 100yds. I can't shoot any better than that.

What's really fun and affordable is to cast your own boolits. It makes for cheap shooting too!

And guitar dude no two guns will be the same.I had 44mag redhawk in 7 1/2"bl that loved nosler partitons.I traded for a redhawk with a 5 1/2" bl that shot 305wfns better.If you have a 44mag with a barrel thats .430 shooting .428/9 jacketed bullets then shoot some good cast bullets that are .431 from my experience the cast has been more accurate.Take a box and measure.I found some partitions that were as small as .427.

But find out for yourself,buy a box of XTPs and a good cast bullet,load up 50 or so of each and head to the range.The bullet YOU can shoot the best with YOUR gun would be the BEST bullet for you,this being JMO

Good advice!

For giggles and grins I guess I'll have to load up some of the .45 300gr XTP Mags i have and do some penetration comparisons. I'll load a 300, 325 and 355 cast each to 1200fps ( or as close as I can get) as well as the xtp's and shoot them all in to the same medium at 25 yds. I've got a bunch of phone books. I'll work on it and maybe have some results by next month. I'll shoot em all out of my SBH Hunter over the chrony and see what happens. I'll use H110 and Hodgdon load data.

I've done a whole bunch of penetration testing if anyone is interested in me posting the results.

I wouldn't mind seeing that, especially if you have any for .44 mag.

I'll check my archives and post up some reports that I have written......standby!

Match the bullet to the game your going to hunt....I`ve used a standard 300gr XTP loaded to 1450fps from my 454 to take about 13 whitetail and it never failed me. I also used Buffalo Bores cast 440gr WFN load in my 475 to break the shoulder of a very large boar, cut through the top of his heart and exit. The boar was down in five yards. I personally feel that by matching the the bullet to the type and size of the game your humting ,and placing the bullet in the right spot,your chances of a clean kill go up accordingly.....Good hunting, James

Agreed. As I stated, my primary (probably only) quarry with the .44 mag is Eastern Whitetails (little VA ones). I am currently leaning toward the 240 gr. XTP or equivalent (like the Penetration Test II thread showed with the factory 240 gr. Remington hollow point). Folks seem to have very consistent results with this style and weight of bullet for our VA brand of little Whitetails. I'll be loading my own to get the greatest accuracy and to moderate the velocity a bit compared to some of the factory loads.

I hope to get out today or tomorrow to empty some brass!

guiarpicva -- we have black bear too!

I know, but I have to get my feet wet on game that won't bite back first!

XTP

sorry im late only get here about once a week or so.

Cast! in a little .429. 240grn. here in the far north east our white tails are not all that small, nor our black bears, this has always been all ive needed. been thinking of getting a 300grn mold but i got so many 240's.