I just picked up some blue dot, and am curious about anyones expirience with it. It will be for my 44 mag shooting 250grn lead bullets. I don't have a crono, and am wondering about load sizes that have worked well. Seems like 12 grns is causing a fair amount of leading.
Bullets are made from wheel weights quenched in water.

Thanks
Chris

Oh yeah, 5.5 inch SBH.

I have never loaded Blue Dot in the 44 mag. However, in the past I loaded many many 41 mags with 14 gr of "Hercules" Blue dot & a 213 gr hard cast bullet. It worked well.

Thus, if the "current" BD is similar to the "old" BD, it would seem that your load may be a little light. Could it be that it is too light?

Why is it that you shouldn't load certian powders too light.

You dont want to go to light below minimun charge recomendations and have a bullet lodge in your barrel.

OK.

Thanks

By the way, I was just researching Blue Dot, and they have issued a saftey warning that Blue Dot is no longer to be used in 357mag with bullets 125grns and under, and is never to be used in 41mag, as it could cause dangerous spikes in pressure.

While I am not an expert on shooting cast bullets, my understanding is that if a cast bullets is pushed too slowly the base will not expand to seal the barrel. As the gas from the burning powder escapes forward past the base, it can cause leading of the barrel. Thus, from my understanding leading can be the result of too light of a load as well as one that pushes the lead bullet too fast.

I suggested that your load "might" be too light. However, other issues may exist that caused your barrel to lead. As I stated, I an not an expert in this area. At the present I shoot jacketed bullets almost exclusively.

The reason for not shooting certain powders like 296 or H-110 with light loads is because they can detonate vs. ignite. It has nothing to do with sealing the bullet in the barrel. Leading is a factor of the lead alloy and speed.

I do not completely agree with Garys comment that leading is a factor of the lead alloy and speed. A lot of tests have been conducted and what has been found is that when bullets are properly sized to the throat and throat dimensions are correct for caliber that bullets do not have to be as hard as once thought to eliminate leading; infact having too hard of a bullet for the pressure of the load may increase the problem. What does cause leading is undersized bullets that allow the hot gases to pass by the bullet as it travels through the cylinder throat and barrel. In this case a hotter (higher pressure load) may solve the problem by "slugging up" the lead bullet to the correct diameter, there by sealing this "gap" and eliminating the gas cutting of the escaping gasses. There are other possible issues with revolvers and the best place I know of to get information on cast bullet shooting and how to resolve them is http://www.lasc.us/ This site has an incredible number of articles on the subject that any cast bullet reloader would find valuable.

Good luck

I haven't had any problems with leading,.357 .44 and .454 casull.I haven't driven the bullets past 1400 fps in these loads and these loads are not using gas checks.I use wheel weights after casting,I heat them in an oven to 450 degrees for 1 hour then water quench,these bullets have a BHN of 27-28 and there not brittle like linotype material.

Mabey my sizing die is shaving too much off the bullets, or mabey I need to do the oven hardening trick. Why is heating them in the oven different from dropping the bullets in the water after casting? They have got to be hotter than 450 when they fall out of the mold.

Thanks for all the info, I'm pretty new to all this.

I shoot Blue Dot with a Cast Performance 200 gr. cast bullet.In a 5.5 SBH. I get no leading and it is in the 1500 fps range "I think". I get a good group with open sights with this load.

Have not tried casting my own yet. Hopefully someday.

How many grns of Blue Dot are you using in that load?

I've used Blue Dot in my .44 mag Contender and several Ruger SBHs .44's 13-15 grains depending on the bullet. I use mostly XTP's from 180-240 gr. Hell, I've used Blue Dot in my .223 and 7 TCU, great for low recoil, low noise target loads. A pound of powder lasts a long time compared to H110 or 4227.

Good day

Since we're on the topic of Blue Dot I have a question. I've been using 12grs Blue Dot which is the lightest load my manual has in my Smith model 29 for quite a while now and with decent luck. I've always used 240gr cast bullets. The other day I had the brainwave of trying some jacketed bullets. I used the same powder charge and same brass. WOW what a pressure change. I even had trouble pushing the brass out of the cylinder they weer so tight. Any ideas why this would happen?

Mike

Jacketed bullets typically produce higher pressures than cast do with the same charge, but that is not a hot BD load by any means - it should not show high pressure. Lyman lists 16.0 grains as maximum with that bullet weight for example, and Alliant lists 13.7 grains.

If it gives high pressure signs then reduce it by a couple grains, but that is certainly odd behavior. I've personally used BlueDot in many firearms, rifles and handguns, and have not seen this behavior. Are you certain you everything was the same other than the bullet?



.

Mike, my favorite 44 laod with Blue Dot is 14grs under a 240gr SJHP that is at running about 1,325 fps very accurate and no pressure at all. Curious that you saw pressure signs.

ssphunter,Never,Never substitute a jacketed bullet in place of cast.Harder jacket means more friction/high pressure,you can substitute cast for jacketed but Never do what you did,your lucky you still have your fingers!Cast bullets are much softer as opposed to jacketed so less friction/lower pressure,Im not trying to be smart about it just concerned because that is very dangerous!

ssphunter,Lyman has a very good cast bullet manual which explains this,in fact I think they have a new cast bullet manual out with more "new" loads,very informative and talks about cast/jacketed pressures.

Thanks for the responses.

After writing my post and reading the responses I went to my reloading room to check my loading data. The information in my post is wrong, I've got 15 grs loaded as opposed to the 12 I wrote in my previous post. I loaded up to 15.5grs with cast bullets with no problems and then loaded jacketed bullets with 15. Still 1gr bellow maximim but obviously still too much. When taking the empty brass out of my cylinder it was like they were sticky like there was still lube on them but dry to the touch. Oh well, I guess I have some pulling to do.
Thanks again for the replys.
Mike

I presume that "new" Blue Dot is very different from "old Hercules" Blue Dot. I have seen numerous notices that state not to use Blue Dot in 41 mags. However, my favorite load for my S&W M657 was 14 gr of "old Hercules" Blue dot behind a 210 gr bullet. It performed well.

While I am speculating, it is possible that your experience with your 44 relates to the use of newer and different lots of Blue Dot.

Just a thought.

The blue dot that is made now is supposedly "faster" so older loads (max) are suppose to be reduced,thats the info that my gun shop put up.ssphunter,just make sure your manual allows for a jacketed bullet,I just assumed that this was common knowledge(never substitute jacketed for cast but can substitute cast for jacketed)I just wanted to make sure you or someone else wouldn't have an unfortunate experience.I don't use blue dot but was checking the reloading page and noticed whoever put up the load for blue dot had it at max at 12 gr. I don't know if this is right or not so I'll check my manuals.

The Lyman(Pistol and Revolver handbook) shows 14 gr.(start) and max at 15.5 for blue dot.This with a 240gr. cast bullet,the pressure ,c.u.p. is 36,000 for the max load so I don't want to imagine what it was with the jacketed bullet.Anyway I hope this helps ,didn't want to see anyone get hurt-johnw.

Here's a sticky thread on Marshall's site re: Blue Dot.

http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=49357

I have been loading Blue Dot in the 44 mag for a while and this thread got me to doing a little research. I had known about the Blue Dot warning for the 357 Magnum and the 41 Magnum. I don't use Blue Dot in either and therefore never looked at data as what the "new" loads might be for the 44. Looking at my older manuals it does show a top load of 16grs. In my Hornady 7th edition manual printed 2007 it shows a top load for a jacked 240gr bullet of 15grs bracketed in red. Looking at the little paperback Alliant guide I have that's printed in 2008 it shows a top load of Blue Dot with a 240gr jacket bullet of 13.7gr. So somewhere in that time frame the rules have changed. My load is not crazy over the limit, but over by the actual powder manufacturers recomendations none the less. So I can now see that the 15grs you had laoded could be over pressure. It's good that we can keep each other up to date.

They did have 240 jacketed hollowpoints listed in the Lyman manual,both had different max. for each, I believe because of bullet length,so I would build loads up very cautiously if using blue dot powder.Marshall's site was a little informing,looks like alliant isn't too concerned ,hopefully they'll get info,testing taken care of so nobody gets hurt!

The old BD is different than the new BD, so the old manuels will show too high of a max charge for the new BD. 15 grns for the new BD is over max load. I don't know when the manuels changed, but be carful!! The new stuff is more powerful. 13.7 is the max for a 240 with the current BD powder.

Personally I can't believe they would change the strenth of the powder, and keep the same name. Are these people begging for a law suit or what!?!
What about people that have been using BD for a long time, and have all their loads all worked out. I wouldn't check every new manuel once I was used to a powder, and already had favorite loads.
They should have changed the name to give people a warning that this isn't what their used to. I mean call it BD number 2 or something.
I know i'm ranting a bit here, but in researching this, many people reported making the same mistake leading to over pressure issues.