I've mentioned my MOA 6.5x284 on order.

I think one of the results from the wait for the gun to get completed is that it makes Rich more money. LOL (but realize this isnt his bread and butter so not suggesting its on purpose)

TOO much time to think about things like:

"Hey.......while I'm at it, why not order ANOTHER barrel?"

At first jump, I thought 22-250 just because its a good varminter, seems to be pretty easy to get good groups with (Im not an expert reloader)and I have brass and dies.

But........

While varminting, fun shooting would be the first and main purpose of said barrel, I CANNOT use it for deer HERE...just for giggles, if I wanted due to regs requiring a ".243 diameter bullet and larger" in handgun rounds.

So, up for grabs is the 243 Win, 243 AI (more for case longevity than anything else)and the 6x47Lapua that is making waves as of late. Another is the 6mm/250. Hey, I GOT BRASS lol. It doesnt appear to be "that bad" a round from ballistics I see online?? Even a 250 AI looks pretty interesting for a multi purpose round.

First and foremost question is am I going to NEED a muzzle brake on a 14 inch or longer bull barrel so I can use a rifle scope with any of them? Money is a bit TIGHT.

Normally bullet weights would be 70 ish grain but would like to be able to shoot heavier ones too for deer if I so choose. Ranges NORMALLY will be under 400 but this LONG range stuff (like the MOA shoot) is starting to get hard to ignore.

I think ALL would "work fine" but since so MANY here have given me so much great info (some of which I would have missed in my own research)I thought I would,once again, ask.

So, if you have preference or have shot them to compare, give me the low down on your opinion????

AND........barrel twists for 70-100 grain bullets? Kinda feel the standard 1-10 would be ok but I'm hardly an expert so opinions there too would be great if you have one. Shoot,I havent even asked Rich if I HAVE an option on twist??

Powders on hand are R15, R17, Hybrid 100V, 4064, 4895 so think Ive got that covered decently but I dont see MUCH reloading info on the Lapua...yet.

ONCE AGAIN, thanks for any info and please know I appreciate all putting up with what might be less than "important" questions to some or questions I "should be able to figure out myself".

CANT HAVE TOO MUCH INFO, IMHO.

God Bless!

6x47L, 243, or the 243AI is the direction I would go from what you mentioned.
Also, the 6mm-284 is a hot-rod as well (Yep, I have one).
I have used Hybrid 100V for both the 243, and the 6x47L.
There is no "Right cartridge" except for the one you want to get.
If you even have a lean to long ranges consider your barrel twist.
I use the 1-8 twist in all of my 6mm's, since I shoot the 90-107 grain bullets.

A bit off topic here, so excuse me please.

Are the AI rounds easier to accurately resize for reloading than the traditional factory rounds in the same case style? Is that part of the draw of the AI's? I just noticed that they have that hard shoulder and figured they might be a bit less finicky in the resizing department.

Sorry for the diversion.

Thanks guys.
Most of what I've read about anything AI is

A. you have more case capacity
B. there is less case stretch (which gives longer case life)

probably OTHER advantages but those are the main two that have stuck out to me over the years from posts.

HOw about the need for a brake to be able to use a rifle scope, Ernie?

thanks

Yes, and Holland's Radial Quick Discharge is my hands down favorite.

I have a 14.5" MGM .243 Win mine has a 14" twist I shoot 55gr NBT's and 58 Vmax Bullets with good sucess. It will shoot a 70gr --depending on the bullet-- but that is about max

I had a 257ROB AI and sold it because I did not like all the case fire forming-- I now have a plain 257ROB

JMHO
You will not gain a lot out of the pistol length barrel going to the AI in the .243

Recoil is very mild-Muzzle flash is extreme

Last note I love my .243 I have a 3-12 burris on it

Steve,
What barrel length are you considering?

14 minimum,Ernie. Debating just making it the same as the 6.5x284, 17 inch.

Pretty much wondering if the 14 inch in bull barrel will need a brake?

The standard bull barrel at 14 inches is the lowest of them all in cost, but not if Im reshaping my eyebrow.

thanks

OOPS, sorry Ernie. I missed your post above that YES it needs a brake.

If you want horsepower and potentially longer distances in the future make it the same length as 6.5-284 IMO.

Also, when using the heavier bullets I believe you will see an advantage with the 243 AI or 6-284 over the standard 243.
I have both the 6-284 and a 243 Win.
In the end, it depends on what you want more than anything else.

Also, IF you are going to add a second barrel the best time to do it is now while you are already waiting so you do not have to send it in later (also more cost with shipping both ways a 2nd time).

thanks for all the help, once again, Ernie

That above was exactly my thought too.

I love 6mms'. I have a 6mm-06 that my dad give me years ago. Personaly i'd go after that 6x47 lapua. Mainly because i've never seen one. The 243 would be easier i reckon. But how many kids on your block have the Lapua round? From reading it needs a 1-8 twist for deer size bullets.

SKR,

Have you considered the 6mm PPC or better yet the 6mm Bench Rest? (easier to make cases). Lots of bang for your buck!!, accuracy fantastic!, don't need the muzzle brake! These are "bench rest" cartridges. I have both and with the 70 grainers, they are one-hole shooters! (1/4 MOA or less).

The advantage of the 243 AI, in addition to the previously mentioned reasons, is that there is significantly less throat erosion compared to the 243 Win., a factor if you take the money you saved on the brake and bought bullets, cases, primers, and powder AND shoot it a lot.

Doc

Interesting, I have never heard that.

If you're gonna go for the 243 Win. capacity, take a look at this cartridge--

http://6mmar.com/Super_LR.html

...basically an improved 243 with no fireforming. The neck length should allow u to go from the 80's all the way up to the 115's.

The sharper shoulder is supposed to give longer barrel length due to the turbulence effect of the power buring in the case more than the barrel...?

On this, I suspect from my studies that FPS VS FPS (aka both loaded to the same velocities) when comparing the 243AI and the 243 is that and AI version does so at LOWER pressures, which Im sure has a lot to do with erosion??? The 6mm LR page in the link shared above mentions the "throat torching" too.

The 6mm Super LR looks interesting but a couple things pop up in my head. (geeeeeez, I hate that!!)

First of all, notice under the diagrams of the rounds the "fine print" stating "using Rem and Win brass ONLY". ??? Lost on a reason a LAPUA brasss wouldnt work?

Second, when comparing it to the 243 AI, the GAIN is being able for form brass without fire forming

AND the longer neck most like, the LOSS is simple case capacity vs the AI version. Correct me if I missed something.

In what I am reading, the 6mm Super LR is basically a "short AI" and one that (heaven forbid) if stuck out in BFE and out of ammo you are not going to be able to grab some 243 Win off the shelf and go. On THAT, well, just IMHO, that's a "way out there reason to choose a round" but.....Ive seen it mentioned enough that I thought Id mention it.

EVEN WITH what appears negative above, I DO LIKE the thought of no fireforming even though doing so for the AI isnt a big deal. Just buy ammo or load standard 243 rounds and go shoot. Not a big deal, just a PIA.

MORE curious to me is what up with only Rem and Win brass? Is Lapua brass thicker? Stiffer? Wont form without super pressures?
(Can you tell Ive never even SEEN Lapua brass?

)

The other IF there is would Rich have the reamer and would it cost extra to chamber it for the barrel? Probably???? Hmmm. Pros and Cons considered, I DO like the looks of that 6mm Super LR on first look.

As mentioned, and must be a considered factor is ...cost. First thing that popped up looking at loading components is the 243 brass is SURE less expensive than the 6.5x284. Dang! There goes any thoughts of a 6mm/284 Ernie. Yeah, Ill HAVE some 6.5x284 but Id still have to buy more.

For standard varmint rounds and hunting, the brass wont be an issue FOR ME. Rem and Win brass is around, pretty cheap yet Id like the OPTION to use Lapua brass should I get into LR shooting with a zest. The OTHER thing about being able to use Lapua brass is...resale. A SP NOT being able to use Lapua brass would lose some potential buyers, SHOULD I ever need to turn it loose fast. Again, IMHO, ONLY. God willing, I wont be poor forever.

While good rounds, and fairly popular, the PPC group really hasnt been considered. Might be an error on my part but for a multi purpose target/varmint/deer round.....I just dont think they have what Id like so get out of it, yet heaven knows Im WRONG a lot, hence the questions here for more to consider. Ill take a look again. Shooting min 95 grain VLDs from them would make them "pretty short range" deer rounds.....or did I miss something?

Do I have everyone totally confused now or just that Im a nut case?

I gotta say, Im a bit astonished there hasnt been more mention of the 6x47 Lapua and the pros and cons? HOW is it going to compare ballistically to the others mentioned?

It's starting to "look like" they all are pretty much in the same ball park ballistically UNLESS you want to shoot 500 yards plus with 105-115 grain HIGH BC bullets.......?? For that I'd probably go back to the 6.5x284 barrel IMO.

Of the four mostly discussed the 6x47L is the only one I cant use anything else for brass AND cant use factory rounds BUT simple resizing of 6.5x47 is a plus. THAT SAID, it still is running "neck and neck" for first place in my choice. Go FIGURE!

Right now, if choosing today (stictly by capabilities) it will be between the 243AI and the 6.5x47 L. Choosing by Cost overall, the standard 243, standard 243 brass, and ebay dies is far and away the leader. Lapua brass still an option but not mandated and it HAS served well for years for thousands.

Mix in that the 243AI only requires a bit more expensive dies, it really is a good one for me. (Back to where I started, LOL)

Doubt I WOULD know the difference between any but still have to decide!

Someone go out and shoot 243, 243 AI, 6x47L, and the 6mm Super LR with 95 grain hunting VLDs and give me a range report. ROFL.

(Told you I was a nutcase)

GodBless for ALL the help. Gotta love considering the options, eh??

SKR, (MORE curious to me is what up with only Rem and Win brass? Is Lapua brass thicker? Stiffer? Wont form without super pressures?
(Can you tell Ive never even SEEN Lapua brass?)

It did state in the article at least once that the Lapua brass is thicker at the neck and shoulder which would require neck turning.

I have looked into this round for some time. I was thinking of getting one of my XP's rebarreled in the 6XC that Tubbs designed but I'm really leaning towards the 6 Super LR.
As far as being out in BFE and not having ammo. All 8 of my Specialty Pistols are wildcats and never have considered not taking ammo. Just something I have to check each outing before going to the field or range.
The reason behind the 6 Super LR is performance from Semi Auto rifles(use in magazines), short action firearms and easy on the barrels for the guys that shoot long strings in matches.
Lapua brass is good, don't get me wrong but all of the hype has never pushed me to buy their brass. I buy Rem, Win or FC and sort by weight and they do very well.
As far as having Lapua brass or being able to us Lapua brass for your unit when you sell it, I don't think it would make one bit of difference to the party buying if the pistol is what they wanted. I have never considered what dies or brass came with a pistol when purchasing.
I start with my own choices of brass, dies and bullets.

Just some of my thoughts this morning.

Mike

Thanks, once again I missed something. (Old age...read too fast...dumb? LOL)

I don't think Rich has a 6XC reamer, but it is a great little cartridge.
The 6x47L is a good one-I have three barrels chambered for that cartridge.

You can use 284 Winchester brass and neck it down for the 6-284, IF that is the route you want to go and not be so costly on brass.

Again, it depends on what you want.

That's supposed to be the reason for using the Win. brass is the thicker neck issue creates a donut when lengthened with the other brass makes. I read his article in PS also, and it's very informative.

U know another cartridge that i'd believe is worth considering is the 243 WSSM. Norm Johnson and a few others have worked the WSSM's up in custom rigs with good to great barrels and are doing some things downrange. Norm used a 10 twist Broughton with some midweight Bergers in 25 WSSM and shot several groups less than .25 MOA. This from a custom varminter--not a full blown bench rig. His writeup on the WSSM's in Varmint Hunter Mag #69 is the gold standard for custom stuff in those chamberings. One of these days i'm gonna get a 7-twist Broughton screwed onto an XP and shoot some stuff with the 115/117 DTAC's out of a WSSM by golly!

Steve,
I double-dog dare you to do it

Oh yeah, oh yeah--u'll see little/big brother!! Nah, nah...

I'm waiting, but I am not going to hold my breath.


Sorry for the OT SKR/Steve.
Just being boys

LOL......no problem,Ernie.
If I ask questions that inspires such comments and good natured harrassment between others, I enjoy it.

Even IF it was by accident. LOL

In the MOA I think, seem to recall, or imagined??? that someone (that someone being a participant) telling me that the WSSM rounds are MAXIMUM diameters for the MOA...and I could experience some extraction issues?? or something like that??

CRS anymore! Either that or I ask too many questions.

A 6mm giving me similar velocities with one of the Berger VLD bullets (with close BC) and similar trajectories (out to 400) to the 130 grain VLDs in the 6.5x284 is somewhat half the goal. (Hoping that dont start an entirely different example of my confusion).

I know the 6.5x284 will leave the 6mm in the dust sometime or another but doubt it will be within my effective range, for awhile at least!

It isnt a HUGE issue but something with VERY close trajectories yet just not as much energy is just my way of shooting for the switch from one to the other leaving me better prepared for precision bullet placement, regardless of the game hunted.

Probably a "non issue" to most but something that seems logical to me, at least at this point.

THANKS to all. Great stuff here!

You are right, that the WSM's or WSSM's are a little fat for the MOA. They can be used but case removal can be slower.

I tell ya what guys. Im at a loss now. I just read for HOURS on the 6BR.

HOW DOES THAT DINKY CASE DO THAT!!! Rich (MOA Rich) has 2800 FPS out of a 14 inch standard barrel for a 95 grain bullet.

???????????

Doc you have a PM.

Steve, sure glad someone piped in on the 243 WSSM. Have just started to work up loads with mine, I am using the berger 88 grain HBC and it is a screamer. I tried some of the 95 gr VLD's and they shot equally as well. My gun is 15" braked 1-10 twist.
4 years ago we stopped at MOA Rich's on the way back from an antelope hunt, I shot one of his handguns in a 223 WSSM and did not have any extraction issues, sure was hard to walk away without buying it.
nmhunter

Rich really pushes things pressure wise-The MOA will take it too, but I don't run mine that hard.

Thanks,Ernie. I had to wonder a BIT on that.

2650-2700 fps seems more realisitic with a 95 grain bullet from the loading charts I saw. I never would have guessed even that looking at the round and the charges.

By comparison the 243 ballistics on Rich's page is just a tad under that in fps but with a 100 grain bullet.

Not believing in free lunches and seeing the "lower recoil" reports, seeing the powder charges used, I would think it HAS to be a "step down" of some kind from a 243 but still looks like a fun short to mid range round to use when the 6.5x284 isnt warranted, energy wise anyway.

thanks again to all
and
God Bless

I don't think you can go wrong with the 6x47L round in a 17" MOA