I have been working on developing some hunting loads for my newly converted Ruger Blackhawk: a .475 Linebaugh. I am not new to hunting with revolvers, or shooting cast bullets in revolvers.
Actually I used to cast my own back in the 1980's; thousands of them, mostly .44 Magnum, but also .357 and even .308...

I want to share what I have recently learned on my .475 Linebaugh Load Project, in hopes that it may help somebody out there to not go through as much frustration as I have.

First off, as soon as I got my .475 built (Rod!) I started loading 325, 375, and 425 gr. cast bullets (cast by my friend Fowler). I tried 6 different powders and many different charge weights. Seems no matter what I tried, the gun would not group.

I then decided to try a JPoint red dot sight to see if that helped; it didn't.

So discussions between Fowler, Rod and myself, we decided to check the cylinder throats. They measured .476", whereas the sizer die was sizing them to .474". Two thousandths difference. Doesn't seem like much! So Fowler opened up the sizer to .476", (EDIT: Plus the barrel was leading up so Fowler also water dropped the bullets to harden them) and I loaded up a batch of those with 2400 powder.

To the range I went, and before shooting decided to check the JPoint sight to see if it was still mounted securely. I was shocked when I pulled on it and it rocked a little. Well, the factory iron sights were only held on with one screw, and also by a little horizontal pin that goes through the "ears" that the irons sit in, but the JPoint base designed for the RBH only had the one screw to hold it on. One could go to a gunsmith and have the JPoint factory base drilled to accept the little horizontal pin through the ears, I suppose. But why would you think that you have to "over-see and over-do" the JPoint Engineers; surely if that extra hole needed to be drilled in their base, they would have done that, right? Well, mine wasn't drilled. (Maybe the engineers had it right if you "only" shot .44 magnum loads...??? and not a custom .475) (Incidentally, JPoint has discontinued this base for the RBH.)

Ok, I tightened that base screw down as hard as I dared, and then started shooting. The gun immediately started to group. After weeks, my frustration was finally ending, heck I was ELATED to see that maybe I still DID know how to shoot a revolver.

Once I got it close to sighted in, I switched to a clean target and put eight holes in a fairly decent group. I then tried pulling on the JPoint sight again, and OMG it was LOOSE again! After "only" 23 rounds of medium heavy loads with the 375 grain cast bullet.



Now I realize that this target is by no means a record group, but please understand that this gun would not even come CLOSE to ANY kind of a group before! And the fact that the JPoint had again "shot loose", yet I still had some kind of a group, that makes it even better.

Solution:
The upper hole on Ruger frame shown was gunsmithed; ie, drilled and tapped. When the irons go back on, this hole will be hidden.


JPoint factory base shown NOW with TWO screws holding it to the frame:



Lessons I learned:

1. Shooting cast bullets is a whole different world in some ways than shooting jacketed bullets. It may take some effort to get them to shoot good.

2. Just because a factory gun part is built a certain way, does not mean that it is perfect or can not be improved on. I have always known this in the back of my mind, but still, don't you think those engineers.......

I love it when I learn something new, especially when it involves making a gun shoot better!

Thanks for sharing Gregg!

Makes me laugh a little. My BFR .475 drove me nuts and it has a much better scope base. No Loc-Tite even with the primer would keep the base screws tight.
I just plain gave up and Accra Glassed the base to the gun and also the screws. I use the Ultra Dot on mine. I don't know how tough your red dot is but the .475 can destroy a lot of those things. The Ultra Dot will not break.
Dump the 2400 and go to 296 with a Fed 155 primer. That gun will shoot if you keep the sights from moving. The .475 is a joy to make accurate. I shoot all kinds and weight boolits from mine and all will do 1" or under at 50 yards and I kept 4 out of 5 on a 6" swinger at 400 yards, shooting Creedmore position.
I don't know your twist rate but if it is 1 in 18", 350 gr boolits work best, up to 400. If you go over 400, you need more velocity.
My (I made my own molds) 420 gr uses 26 gr of 296 with a 1 in 15" twist so you might need 26.5 gr with the 425 gr. 2400 will not bring the velocity high enough for accuracy.
By the way, the 400 gr Lee boolit with 15 gr of HS-6 is very accurate with less recoil.
DO NOT USE RIFLE PRIMERS! Only LP magnum primers. Next you need hard lead and water dropped WW metal is OK, let them age a week before loading. You also need good dies and Hornady is the best for proper case tension.
Here are average, 5 shot groups at 50 yards with different boolits. The large one in the center is 200 yards and I shot the can twice at 100 yards.
Your gun WILL shoot so don't give up. I will help all I can, just ask.

Glad to hear you are getting the bugs ironed out of the new gun.


My 480 was sliding the scope in the rings when I first mounted it. Took a little doing to get it to hold.

Great info, Gregg. Thanks for sharin' your experiences.

Greg, is that the same scope you have on other hand guns?

Yes Craig, it was on the .500 WE; I still have the other one on my .44 mag.

[quote=430man
Dump the 2400 and go to 296 with a Fed 155 primer. That gun will shoot if you keep the sights from moving. (GR: I have H-110 and planned to try that also, thanks)

Next you need hard lead and water dropped WW metal is OK, let them age a week before loading.
GR: Yes, did the water drop; what is the reason for the one week of "aging"?

Gregg -- pleased to see that things are looking up! What is the range you are shooting at?

I too would strongly recommend 296/H110.

Greg,age hardning occurs with the wheelweights,I really don't know the reason it does but it does,430 man told you right.I've confirmed this with my Lee hardness tester.

[quote=Gregg Richter][quote=430man
Dump the 2400 and go to 296 with a Fed 155 primer. That gun will shoot if you keep the sights from moving. (GR: I have H-110 and planned to try that also, thanks)

Next you need hard lead and water dropped WW metal is OK, let them age a week before loading.
GR: Yes, did the water drop; what is the reason for the one week of "aging"?

It takes time for the lead to reach full hardness and boolits also expand a little. If you seat them too soon, the brass can size them a little under size. My .476" boolits actually expand to .478" after time. Still shoot great so I don't worry as long as loads chamber.
H-110 is fine, it is the same powder as 296 but might be a tad slower due to the lots Hodgdon gets. These days it might be the same though, I have not tested it lately.
Of all the deer revolvers I have, I love the .475 most. It kills fast, does not ruin meat and will work for any animal on earth.
You made a fine choice.

I need to correct Gregg here and this new batch of bullets have been cast from 92-2-6 alloyed lead for a hardness of 15, in between air cooled WW and water dropped WW. They are sized to .476 and lubed with LBT soft lube. It was the lead I had in the pot and figured if we need to go harder yet we will down the road.

My FA 475 liked the smaller .474 bullets as it has a tight barrel and .475 cylinder throats. Didn't even think to check Gregg's gun when he got it but I think we are on the right road now to getting it to shoot right.

Twenty five yards is where I start on my load development. Now that the gun is "tracking right," the ranges will be extended. When the range gets to where I can not keep all of the shots in the kill zone of the intended quarry, I will limit it to that, and if further I go to my back-up pistol which would be my Encore 30-06 JDJ.

Thanks Bill. You cast 'em, I load 'em and shoot 'em.

Most of my revolvers shoot best with water dropped WW metal at 22 BHN but for super tight groups I add tin and antimony to WW's. That gets them around 25 BHN.
I need some expansion with my 45-70 BFR because the velocity is too high so I went to 50-50 WW and pure, oven hardened to 20 BHN. These MUST use a gas check from my gun or groups are sad. They are accurate but I get a flier with every group, sometimes two. They do leave the bore clean but I do not get any leading with any boolit anyway.
Now the .44, .45 and .475 do not need any expansion as long as the boolit has a nice meplat like a WLN or WFN. They kill just fine with a very hard boolit.
The .475 is great and if a deer runs it does not know where it is going and will smash into trees and brush piles and will drop in sight fast. My velocity with the 420 gr is 1329 fps and that range seems to be the best with hard lead. If you load much higher then 1400 fps you do need to bring in some expansion or you will just drill a hole in deer.
Whitworth and I hunt together and we kind of stack up deer like cord wood. I had to quit with six last season because I could not give away any more meat and I hate to butcher. We do a necropsy on them to see what each boolit does and it has been a huge learning experience.
We both can only say that the .475 is a fantastic caliber, destroying internals with almost no meat damage.
Here is what a hard boolit does.

If you want to have fun with the .475, shoot some water jugs but stand back a little or you will get a shower.

It blew 4 jugs sky high, split 2 more and went all the way through 14 jugs. We thought we could catch a boolit but it looks like we need 20 jugs. My almost WFN penetrated 37" of soaked phone books and paper.
The gun is just too much fun to be legal!

love this forum, I alwqys leqrn new stuff...who would a thunk that CAST LEAD bullets grow and harden with age...??

thanks for posting to all you guys...

15.0grs of HS-6 and a 405gr Keith make for a much easier load to shoot out of my 5 shot 475. After shooting 5 rounds of Hornady`s
400gr XTP load I finished the day using the above HS-6 load and was pleased with the accuracy and recoil. However, whats the sense in having a 475 Linebaugh if you don`t shoot the loads the gun was originally made for (400grs at 1300fps)...With the shape my wrist is in I have to balance out my range day more light then heavy ammunition in the 475.

Try the Lee C476-400-RF boolit, it is amazingly accurate and also shoots great with 15 gr of HS-6.
I use 26.5 gr of 296 for hunting with it.
I can not get the accuracy I want with ANY Keith design boolit in ANY of my revolvers, never could with all the guns I have owned. Fooled with the blamed things for 58 years and all they do is shoot decent, never great. I don't think they have the right guidance at the forcing cone. A revolver has to be better then perfect with them.
I use the RCBS 245 SWC for plinking to save lead with my .44 using 7 to 10 gr of Unique and finally have it shooting better but it does not match any other boolit. After a lot of testing I found the boolit shoots better and better the harder I make it. It has to be 28 to 30 BHN before it groups at 25 yards but still spreads a little too much at 50.
I have had no luck with any in the .475 at all.
The Keith was used with soft lead in Elmer's day but let me show you what happens to it in the gun.
Nuts, I can't, Photobucket is under maintenance.
Anyway, a soft Keith turns into a truncated cone when slammed with pressure but slump can be uneven. Why not start with a better shape instead of making the gun change the shape?
Another hint for you. The faster the powder you use, the harder the boolit must be because all the pressure is applied to the lead RIGHT NOW. Even a .38 special with those soft wad cutters will expand the boolit to full forcing cone diameter and squirt lead from the gap. I have seen too many of them with leading on the outside of the gun along with rifling filled fully up with lead.

Photobucket is back up and here is what happens to a soft Keith with fast powder. Didn't yo mammy eva teach you nuffin?

Take a good look---just where did the grease grooves go? Where did the lube go? OUT THE GAP of course. Nothing for the bore. I might be a big pain in the butt but you have to realize that any boolit must NOT change in any way all the way to the target from what you loaded in the case.

I'm back home Gregg and glad to see things coming together on that gun. It was driving me as nuts as it was you. My 475's prefer the Oregon Trail 355's running at 1500fps but they have a hardness of 24 so I have no leading and they also like the CP 425's but not as much and I believe the reason is the CP's come in at .47415 whereas the the OT come in at .475. The reamer I used was a brand new Manson which is probably why the throats were slightly oversized but I'm glad it came together. Keep me informed on your progress.
Rod

Today I went to the range with 99 reloads for the .475 and 45 for my FA 500 WE (several DIFFERENT loads in each caliber). I came home with all empty brass. I shared the #2 shootin' shack with an 85 year young gentleman that had a world of wisdom and stories to tell. After he shot a couple of rifles, and he pulled out a Ruger SBH with a Weaver scope on it, I was pleasantly surprised. He went on to tell me he had taken a bear, a mountain lion, an antelope, and an elk, with that Ruger. I was all smiles as I listened to his stories in between shooting sessions; it was a real nice afternoon.

Here is an honest 50 yard group I shot with my .475; the JPoint 4 MOA red dot seemed to cover the orange center of the target. I am quite happy with how the gun is now shooting and will continue with load development.



PS: The "scrape marks" on the target are from bullet splatter off of my steel target plate I had hanging nearby; in actuality it took most of the bullets today!

Now your talking!
A red dot does cover a lot of target but to tell the truth I don't do any better with a scope.
Keep the brightness as low as you can and still see it good.
Use a target that the dot can be centered in.
Sometimes a 3D target works best, like a pop can which is real good at 100 yards. Set the bottom of the dot on the top of the can.
Keep us informed how your dot holds up, also the mount.

Looking good Gregg!!

The stories were a great addition to the day also. I use to work for a fellow that grew up in Nefoundland and came to the states when WWII started to help the farmers. During lunch in the woods (we were loggers) he would tell stories of the lumber camps there and also about fishing and lobster trapping. Priceless memories.

awesome THREAD, LOTS OF GREAT LEARNING ADVICE. KEEP US POSTED!

Excellent Gregg, this has been a good night. I had a bottle of Jack and my family went to the fair and my 9 and 13 yr old daughters got their pictures taken with Eddie Money and of course alot of autographs. My thirteen year old had her hand grabbed by Eddie and his lead Guitarist while they were singing so she is pumped. Anyways I'm glad the gun is shooting like I expected it too and I have an order for a very special gun that I will start on as soon as the ATF gives me my license. So far the BATFE has cashed my check but I haven't heard anything and they did tell me they would come out to my home before issuing the FFL. I'm also getting ready to break ground in the next couple months on a new shop and gun store that will built on my property assuming of course the ATF dosn't find any issues with me. I think this gun will blow all of you away if it goes off as planned. I'm also re working my Vaquero to try something new so I'll have pics of it eventually. I would like to thank Gregg for having the faith in me to build his first custom gun and for working with me on getting it straightened out. I know how I would like to be treated if I were shoveling out the money for a custom gun and I also know how I was treated and I can promise you if the ATF comes through with my license I will go to what ever lengths necessary to build you the gun you want. If Gregg had not been able to find his magic load I was going to re work the gun which is what I'd want someone to do for me but yet when I had my guns built that didn't happen. Gregg also wanted to mess with the trigger but in the end found out i had it about as far as you could take a new model Ruger but just in case I ordered him a new hammer and trigger at my cost which I can guarantee you from experience the builder of my first custom guns would have told him too bad and bitched him out for taking it down. I started as a hobbyist and while I don't encourage too much screwing around with things I understand the desire to try and improve a design. I did the same thing with vehicles for about 22years and about 90% of the time I improved the factory design or layout and I've taken the same attitude to building Rugers. I'm not to vain to listen to a customer that may have a better idea. I've worked on everything from hugos to Ferrari's so I'm well equipped to deal with the different desires and personalities of people wanting guns built as long as they are honest and decent with me everything is cool but turn into an ass and you will get your gun and money back and a note letting you know not to darken my doorstep again. Gregg was the best kind of customer I could have asked for, he expected alot but was willing to be patient and work with someone converting from hobby to business and I'd do work for him again in a second without even debating it. In fact Gregg and I have talked about a project for the future which may interest alot of you.
Rod

That makes me sad---I would have driven from WV to Oregon to share a bottle of Jack!

Yes, we want to see what you fellas come up with.

well if you came all the way from WV I guess it would only be polite to share

. Not to hijack Greggs thread but that was a bad couple of days but long story short after turning my ex into child protective services I've got custody of the 13yr old daughter without a fight.

That is never a good scenario for any of the parties involved. Prayers will be there my friend...

Did you ever get your scope base to stay on your 475? Last I heard it went flying threw the air with the greatest of ease.

That is great news but everything is still painful and you still need prayers.

You and your family are on my prayer list, Rod...

Thanks guys and yest TC the base is staying put now and hopefully Gregg has the base on his sight staying put on this gun now that he's done some work.