I was wondering about a 15" 25-06 to hunt with. I have a 308 that shoots great. I shoot out to around 200yrds. I was just wondering what the differernce at that distance would be on killing deer. Between the 308 and the 25-06. I know dead is dead, but....Does the short barrel affect the 25 since it really shines in a long barrel.I usually try to stay within the yardage that the bullets foot pounds energy stays up around 1000ft lbs. Does anyone else look at this or not? In other words I look at what ever bullet That I use, then look at when the bullet slows down and the energy is around 1000ft lbs. Then I figure that is the range for that bullet to kill effectively. Am I looking at that right? I know there is some other factors, but just basicaly.
PS. I have watched my daughter drop deer for years with her browning 25-06. I thought I would see how it would be in a handgun

It will do just fine in a 15" barrel.
I would rather have the 25-06 myself over the 308 in a Encore barrel for hunting, but that is just my preference.

Ernie,
I have to ask why the 25 06. Reason is that I'm looking to replace my 7 08 barrel that I traded, and have been noticing the 25 06. I already have dies for the 7 08, but would still be open to other calibers. Mostly will be a deer barrel, but mabey elk once in a while.

Don't mean to steal the thread, but the 7 08 is sooo close to a 308 I thought the comparison would still be valid.

Thanks
Chris

I would like to know also.....Is it that it don't kick as hard or flat shooting. cause if it shoots as flat as a rifle. It will be awsum. would the 25-06 be enough gun for elk and black bear(250lbs average)

Let me put it this way.
I hunt and shoot LR with both the 6-284 and the 6.5-284.
The parent case for both these wildcat cartridges is the 284 Winchester, which for all practical purposes is a ballistic twin to the trusty ole 06 case.
In a 15" barrel, the 25-06 will get the rifle performance of the 25-08, 25 Souper or 25-308 Win (all the same case, just different ways of describing it.
My kids have killed a cow and bull elk with a 14" 260 Rem.
The 25-06 will have more performance than that for sure.
Right bullet+ Right placement=dead big game animal.

The 25-06 will be a flatter shooting cartridge than the 7-08.
I have a good friend that has 257 Rob AI in a XP-100, and he has shot his out to 1K with good accuracy.

Truth be known the 25-308, 260 Rem., 7-08, and 308 will all kill deer and elk just fine (all cartridges based on the 308 Winchester).
When you go up to the 06 or 284 Winchester family of cartridges and neck them down, you will be gaining from 150-200 fps over the 308 family of cartridges.

Differences depend on bullet weights, individual barrels, etc.

My preference for deer would be 6mm, 25, 6.5 or 7mm.
My preferences for elk start at 6.5 to 7mm, then jump to 338.
FWIW many locals in Colorado and Wyoming like the 25-06 for both deer and elk.
I wouldn't hesitate to use a 25-06 or 25-284 Win on Elk.

What about the 257 Rob AI vs the 25-06? My Rob is pushing a 115 NBT at 2800 FPS. I don't really know what the 25-06 is capable of, I feel the Lyman book has under-rated it AND the 270 Win by 200+ fps... ... ...

Thanks guys,
Lot of good info. I am thinking that the 25-06 with a 2.5x8 leo on top for my next handgun. Not that I need another one, but.......

They are about ballistic twins.
With the 06 having a tad more capacity.

My guess is in a 15" barrel the RobAI would equal or possibly outrun the 06 in a 15" barrel.

Thanks Mr. Ernie

Ps... Bug, you can't have my 257 Rob AI back... she shoots WAY to good! LOL

I have the same gun in the un-AI version and like it too. I will tell you though the AI gun was about 200 FPS faster than the one I have now---there is a huge differance in the powder dynamic between the two--

Overall if you do not mind the fire forming brass thing the AI is better by far.

The Std is just much eaiser for me.

In the end I love the 257 BOB in either version

If I remember right, the two biggest “improved” cartridges that POA did were the 30-30 at 13% and the 257 Rob at 10%. That is what I remember reading anyways.

You all know that my vote would definitely go with the .308
ESPECIALLY IF:

ELK (period) and Big Mule Deer at longer ranges are in the future.

And then I would say, hey, why not go to the 30-06... oh heck, better yet, why not the 30-06 Improved (or 30-06 JDJ).

But that is just me from my own experiences on multiple-multiple elk kills (personal, clients and others witnessed) and sitting in with game wardens and dispatching wounded elk at their directions,...yada....yada... )

Just My Humble Opinion.

I am certainly savvy enough to know that a properly placed 25 caliber bullet of the correct design will do the job also, but I am not a good gambler, so why stack the deck toward using a smaller MARGINAL caliber that works when every thing is PERFECT?

When if using a bigger caliber will help you with that imperfect shot (which yes, we have all made at times!)

PS: Remember we are not all of the same caliber as Ernie when it comes to placing that bullet, especially at longer ranges, with a handgun. With all due respect to you, Ernie.

You have that right!

I have an 375 H&H AI and a 8mm Rem Mag for my elk hunt... eventually...

And yes, they are very overkill, but they are what I will take.

My LR elk rigs start with either a 6.5 SAUM or WSM, 7mm SAUM, 7mm Dakota, 7mm Rem Mag Imp, or the 388 Lapua Improved.
For a light weight carry rig a 6.5x55 Swede Improved would work as well.

I have never had the opportunity to harvest and elk. Nor do I have any idea of what it really takes to bring one down, which is why “my” caliber selections are what they are. Simply put, my choice of calibers could take a cape buffalo...

Since the question was not about elk as a primary rig first of all, I was not emphasizing that until later in this thread.

IF you are going to use the smaller calibers for elk, then limit your distance to make sure your shot placements are good.
In fact you should do this with whatever cartridge you are using.
A bad hit is a bad hit.
Elk's vitals are a big target compared to deer.

Good advice Mr. Ernie!

I wasn’t trying to insinuate that a bigger cartridge needed to be considered, I was trying to put my inexperience of hunting elk in the equation.

With thought on my mind, what type of bullet needs to be considered for hunting elk?

I have taken a number of elk with Partitions.
They open up quickly to the partition, then the back part of the bullet continues to penetrate.

Nosler's Accubond would be another good one or any bonded bullet.
Just make sure your impact velocity is high enough for the bullet to perform as it is designed.

Sierra's Gamekings has also worked great for me.

I have used NBT's on two bulls and a couple of cows. Their minimum recommended impact velocity is slower than the AB's by about 200 fps. Need to make sure you stay away from large bone with this bullet-Broadside lung shots only!

If I was going to recommend one bullet that I would use from the one's listed it would be the AB.
Not saying there are not other good bullets, but I would also use the poly-tipped Swift Scirocco's-Quite expensive though.

Now I use other bullets, since I play the LR game, but I do not think this thread is about that primarily

Thanks guys,
I don,t know how this got into a elk conversation. Here in Va. where I hunt there is none and I was just wondering with all the experince out there At 200yrds which cal. would be better for deer and occasionally a bear. you all have given great info on elk. If i could ever afford to go elk hunting, there is no question that i would take my 308.I don't reload. Just shoot and enjoy shooting deer. LOL

I am a fan or the 257 Roberts and the 250 Savage for handgun lengths-- but-- If you are set on a 25-06 Kim has a very good deal on a new Pro hunter in 25-06 on this site that would let you go shooting pretty quick at a low price.

It will be perfect for deer-- as for bear --I have never shot one so I don't know

based on the info in your post I would use the 308 for the extra bullet weight--

Another vote for the Nosler Partition.

And that is why my post says:

"You all know that my vote would definitely go with the .308
ESPECIALLY IF:

ELK (period) and Big Mule Deer at longer ranges are in the future."

Note the words in bold.

Hey Gregg,
I respect your opinion among others here, So I agree that the 308 is a better over all gun and that is why I got it first. But, still as I said before Would the 25 be ok since my daughter has one in a rifle and we could hunt with the same cal. or should I just move on and look at another cal. to play with....for deer

Ernie called me yesterday and we had a good chat. We have been friends for a couple years give or take, and probably always will be.

We discussed this thread, and I told him: "Ernie, that is one matter that we will probably never agree on." Meaning his caliber choices for elk versus mine. We both laughed and agreed to disagree. I will be meeting up with him to try some of his new guns, shoot some steel, and introduce my son Joe to the long range stuff, (under Ernie's excellent tutelage) when I am in Wyoming for the HHI Antelope Hunt next month. Here is a youtube video I did with Ernie last fall:
http://www.youtube.com/user/stallionwest#p/a/u/1/GEfsnEp8jGk

I am from the old school, ie. sorta the Elmer Keith type who likes bigger bullets, etc (don't need to go into that)

A lot of my elk experience has been on big, mature bulls that are up to a fourth or so bigger than the cows and immature bulls, maybe even bigger. And a lot of it has been in heavily treed forested areas, where you only get to shoot at a "part" of an elk, and if he goes very far, you may have a real headache finding him. Meaning, you may not be able to see him if he moves more than a few feet, or watch him run off because he is not in the open; NOT meant that you shoot at any part of the elk that you see!

And a lot of my experience has been from guiding hunters, many of whom get so excited (and rightly so) when they see an elk that it is hard for them to concentrate and make a good steady shot.

When I give my choice of an elk cartridge (or even big mule deer) I tend to go bigger than some because of my experiences, pure and simple. I know that Ernie has killed elk with a 6.5 SAUM, but does that mean that I want one of my hunters doing it?

NO!

I entirely agree with Ernie's statement: "IF you are going to use the smaller calibers for elk, then limit your distance to make sure your shot placements are good.
In fact you should do this with whatever cartridge you are using.
A bad hit is a bad hit." AGREED!

My philosophy is and always will be: use a cartridge that is more than adequate, not near marginal, to give you some some (plenty) of leeway for that bad angle, that marginal shot, or that big bone that you hit without intending to (or that just plain bad shot, which does happen sometimes, 'cuz if a bad shot is made a bigger bullet is still better!

Someone famous once said: Use enough gun." Yes that referred to African game but it applies to ANY game, IMHO.

Gene, I was responding in part to this post, also.

Sorry if I got too far off subject.

Duane

I hate to admit this publicly, but I might as well get it over with. Then I will get off the elk kick.
If I was hunting elk in heavy or dark timber I would want a big bruiser as well for a cartridge as well-Partition or Barnes X would be my first choice in that scenario.
I would punch him right through the shoulders
Don't fall over in shock Gregg

FWIW-I rarely hunt elk in dark timber

Last, it was 260 Remington, not a SAUM.
120 NBT at 2540 fps from the muzzle.
I also knew the shots would be under 150 yards.

LOL

My last elk I killed was with my bow, #50 recurve, so I really don't have a dog in this fight.
If I had to go hunting tomorrow I'd take my 7-30 Waters...and I would hunt just about anything as long as I paid attention to my placement and distances.
I have no doubt that my 257AI Bob/6.5x284/308/45-70 would all do the job at the proper distance...I just feel more confident with the Waters because I have more trigger time with it.
If I was in your shoes I'd take the 25-06 and start burning some powder so there won't be any confusion come game time.

Someday I want to shoot half as good as Ernie at half his distances!!!!!

Ammohouse,

The last elk I killed was with my 18 year old Oneida Eagle recurve/compound.


You don't have a dog in this fight, ok. So you are basically agreeing, because everything you are saying is nothing really new to this thread. As I stated previously, I agree that the smaller calibers can do the job on elk. I just know, through experience as an outfitter and as an experienced elk hunter, that the bigger calibers give you some leeway for the unexpected.

Thanks Ernie, I believe that we might see eye to eye after all!

Nice elk, my recurve is a Damon-Howatt built in 1971 and it still shoots awesome. I have plenty of bows but that one will always be special.

I'm basically saying the same thing that always gets said, nothing really new to any thread.
Pick your bullet and put it in the best spot and you'll be successful...no matter what game you're hunting.
If somebody comes to your camp and shoots a 25-06 better than a 308...what would you want him to shoot???

That is a GREAT point.

September/October “RifleShooter", The Three Kings, page 49

“I have my hunters verify the sight-in of their rifles before hunting,” he says. “Most come in by plane, and you never know what may have happened in the hold of a Jet. I’ve come to feel downright confident when a client pulls a .30-06 or .270 out of his gun case. I’ve learned to be a little wary of those who arrive with the big magnums. It’s rare when these fellow, who are not professional hunters, get good groups on the targets with rifles that kick hard.”

In short, beware of the man with one gun, for he knows how to use it!!

Duane

Ps,

“The Three Kings” was an article about the .270, 30-06, and 7mm Mag. America’s thee most popular big-game rounds. It went on to list how vestal the cartridges were, particularly when they were handloaded. [“Surprisingly, today’s ‘06 truly achieves original .300 H&H ballistics with handloads...”] It also went on to say how underrated these rounds were to their big belted mag or short mag counterparts...

So we have again gone full-circle!