 .357, What one round for both?
#75271
10/02/2010 11:38 PM
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Charlie SA
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What one .357 round would you folks consider best for hunting both deer and hogs at close range, 25 yards or less (commercially loaded)?
Charlie
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Re: .357, What one round for both?
[Re: Charlie SA]
#75273
10/03/2010 2:14 AM
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jwp475
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Re: .357, What one round for both?
[Re: jwp475]
#75286
10/03/2010 9:18 PM
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Charlie SA
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I do have the Buffalo Bore 180 grain Long Flat Nose that I was going with, don't know if there is enough difference in the Wide Flat vs the Long Flat to result in better results in deer, hogs I think either would work well.
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Re: .357, What one round for both?
[Re: Charlie SA]
#75287
10/03/2010 9:57 PM
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jwp475
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Same/same if you have the Buffalo Bore load then you are set. I was just useing the Grizzly ammo as an example
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Re: .357, What one round for both?
[Re: jwp475]
#75320
10/05/2010 12:49 AM
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johnwilliams
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I don't know if its still in production but Federal made a tough 180 gr. hollowpoint load that would work.
H.H.I.#8190 Colossians 1:17 And He is before all things,and by Him all things consist!
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Re: .357, What one round for both?
[Re: johnwilliams]
#75326
10/05/2010 9:15 AM
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wapitirod
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if you can still get them the winchester partition gold or maybe the new dual bond ammo but although i use hard cast in some of my big bores a 35 caliber pencil hole wouldn't be my first choice unless you hit solid bone and anchor it. I did load up some 187gr CP LFNGC bullets more for fun than anything else but I could never get the accuracy out of them I could with jacketed ammo which has pretty much been the case across the board. I shot a 200lb mule deer doe at roughly 20yds with the partition gold and it blew up the heart and lungs and was just under the hide on the opposite side completely intact and it expanded perfectly dropping the deer in it's tracks.
I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them. John Wayne-The Shootist
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Re: .357, What one round for both?
[Re: wapitirod]
#75334
10/05/2010 1:17 PM
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jwp475
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Do you have a picture of a "pencil" hole, caused by a wide flat point hard cast? I have taken a lot of game with wide flat point hard cast and I have never seen them leave a "pencil" hole. Hard cast always leave a nice large wound channel.
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Re: .357, What one round for both?
[Re: jwp475]
#75351
10/05/2010 8:39 PM
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wapitirod
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Do you have a picture of a "pencil" hole, caused by a wide flat point hard cast? I have taken a lot of game with wide flat point hard cast and I have never seen them leave a "pencil" hole. Hard cast always leave a nice large wound channel.
Don't need a picture I watched one mule deer buck run off like he hadn't even been hit after taking a 440gr hardcast from a 45-70 bfr right in the lungs and another one I had to put down that had been wounded took a 335gr from a 45 colt to the vitals at 25yds and if he could have run he would have but he had a broken hip from a car so the next round from the same distance I put through his neck killing him instantly and both holes were the same size inside and out as for wound channel inside it must not have been to serious for him not to drop but that one was turned over to the state police to feed the homeless and the first one never slowed down and there was very little blood and eight people in 6 hrs couldn't find a sign of him. I've heard numerous stories that ended with similiar results. After those two experiences and after talking to guys that have hunted the world with handguns I threw away those loads for use on anything but the largest game. But if you like them then more power to you but my personal experiences and those of people with much more knowledge and experience than either one of us has led me to stay with jacketed ammo especially when your just talking about deer and pigs.
I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them. John Wayne-The Shootist
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Re: .357, What one round for both?
[Re: wapitirod]
#75354
10/05/2010 11:17 PM
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jwp475
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Do you have a picture of a "pencil" hole, caused by a wide flat point hard cast? I have taken a lot of game with wide flat point hard cast and I have never seen them leave a "pencil" hole. Hard cast always leave a nice large wound channel.
Don't need a picture I watched one mule deer buck run off like he hadn't even been hit after taking a 440gr hardcast from a 45-70 bfr right in the lungs and another one I had to put down that had been wounded took a 335gr from a 45 colt to the vitals at 25yds and if he could have run he would have but he had a broken hip from a car so the next round from the same distance I put through his neck killing him instantly and both holes were the same size inside and out as for wound channel inside it must not have been to serious for him not to drop but that one was turned over to the state police to feed the homeless and the first one never slowed down and there was very little blood and eight people in 6 hrs couldn't find a sign of him. I've heard numerous stories that ended with similiar results. After those two experiences and after talking to guys that have hunted the world with handguns I threw away those loads for use on anything but the largest game. But if you like them then more power to you but my personal experiences and those of people with much more knowledge and experience than either one of us has led me to stay with jacketed ammo especially when your just talking about deer and pigs. So, how much lung tissue did it take out? Or do you not know? I have seen deer run like they weren't even hit with a double lung shot from a high-powered rifle. So what's your point. I have shot enough game in my 59 years throughout North America to put my experience up against anyone else's. The question still remains, have you used wide, flat nose hardcast bullets? You mention the way they kill, but nothing of the meplat size -- which is key to the way they wound. I've seen exit holes through the ribs of a double lung shot that was unimpressive in size, yet the bullet took out a 3 inch section of lunch tissue passing through. The animal didn't fall quickly (about 30 seconds), a different type of bullet would not have killed quicker with that same shot. Lung shots arent allways quick killers.
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Re: .357, What one round for both?
[Re: jwp475]
#75356
10/06/2010 12:01 AM
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wapitirod
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your not worth the time or effort to argue with and most people on here know that especially the ones that count. I have my opinion and you have yours so I'll just leave it there.
I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them. John Wayne-The Shootist
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Re: .357, What one round for both?
[Re: wapitirod]
#75363
10/06/2010 1:11 AM
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jwp475
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your not worth the time or effort to argue with and most people on here know that especially the ones that count. I have my opinion and you have yours so I'll just leave it there. Nor are you as one's opinion only carries the weight of one's experience.
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Re: .357, What one round for both?
[Re: Charlie SA]
#75364
10/06/2010 1:18 AM
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Charlie SA
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Thanks for the info. Haven't seen the Partition Gold recently but I'll go with the 180 grain HC for this season. Went to roder some more Buffalo Bore and they weren't in stock at this point at Midway so I went with the Double Tap. Seem to be very close to BB in the quoted fps.
We will see.
Thanks again.
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Re: .357, What one round for both?
[Re: Charlie SA]
#75380
10/06/2010 2:30 PM
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doc with a glock
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Charlie,
I've used the Remington 180 jhp in the 357 Mag, 357 Max, and the 357-44 Bain & Davis, velocities from 1200s to 2000s. I've had very good results with that bullet on antelope, muley and whitetail deer and black bear. I've also used several approx 180 hardcast wln, wfn bullets with the same results. I believe that Gary S. may have used the 180 Rem jhp also, with good results. The cast vs. jacketed controversy will continue till hell becomes a vacation resort. They both have their strengths and weaknesses due to multiple variables of shot placement, striking velocity, etc., etc.. Rod has valid points as does JWP. You will have to experiment with both, using good judgment and care when hunting to exercise the most humane kill possible. All the technicalities aside, game animals are "sensate" creatures that deserve our care and respect.
Doc
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Re: .357, What one round for both?
[Re: doc with a glock]
#75383
10/06/2010 4:08 PM
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Whitworth
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Here's an anecdotal observation regarding the Cast versus jacketed arguement. It is my impression that those who tend to lean towards jacketed expanding bullets haven't really given wide-meplat hardcast bullets a fair shake, and often just give them a perfunctory glance without truly testing them. At least that is the impression I get. One animal, one unfavorable result, and cast is off the list of viable projectiles. Cast guys, on the other hand (and not in all cases obviously) have often started with jacketed bullets and ultimately ended up in the cast camp. The issue is more about reliability for me than anything else. Your hollow-point may or may not open up. It may or may not penetrate deeply or adequately. Cast do the same thing every single time. If you claim that the hardcast doesn't make a large wound channel, you're either not looking very closely or you're not using a large enough meplat.
I still use both in certain situations and I am constantly testing.
Okay, back to the topic at hand.
Carry on...... 
Last edited by Whitworth; 10/06/2010 4:13 PM.
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Re: .357, What one round for both?
[Re: jwp475]
#75385
10/06/2010 8:03 PM
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cottonstalk
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Now you don't have to like JWP or even respect him but you have to respect his experience when it comes to hunting with a handgun.I will agree with him to the fact he has killed alot of game animals with handguns and alot of different game animals.He has hunted in more different spots than most will hope to see.
People didn't like big E but you couldn't dispute what he did with a race car.You haven't got to like JWP but if you are a handgun hunting aficionado you have to respect what he has done with a handgun.IMO
As for the OP, Charlie SA, if your range is going to be held to 25yards and closer as you describe either of the choices will work.Practice and practice,and remember there is no replacement for shot placement.
"If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence,try orderin' someone else's dog around" unknown cowboy
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Re: .357, What one round for both?
[Re: cottonstalk]
#75392
10/07/2010 1:07 AM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 107
Charlie SA
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Again, thanks for all the responses. I appreciate the sharing of experiences and the suggestions for success. Yes, I want to stick with the close range as I don't feel comfortable in further and with a bowhunting background getting close has been the name of that game.
Charlie
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