Hornady
#75941
10/16/2010 1:00 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 62
johnnyG
OP
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OP
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Was shooting my SRH 454 with some friends the other day using Hornady 300gr xtp factory stuff. I fired 5 rounds and unloaded the gun and noticed on the last round that the bullet was pulled out from the case far enough to see the entire crimping groove. Makes me not want to shoot that stuff no more.
There is no stopping a man who is in the right and keeps on comming.
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Re: Hornady
[Re: johnnyG]
#75955
10/16/2010 1:10 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 174
460Encore
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member
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Johnny,
I have a Ruger Redhawk in 45 Colt and a Super Redhawk in 454 Casull.
I also shot the same ammo, 454 Casull with 300 grain XTP, in the last week. I had no problem them jumping crimp. I actually am using the empty brass to do test loads now. I crushed two of the cases on a mockup shell before achieving adequate crimping.
Although I have not had my bullets jumping crimp, its always a possiblity, and its tough to get enough crimp with the seating die without crushing the case wall. I purchased a Lee Crimping Die to avoid the bullets from jumping crimp.
If you shooting factory loads, I definitely would contact Hornady about the problem.
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Re: Hornady
[Re: 460Encore]
#75957
10/16/2010 2:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,097
jwp475
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,097 |
The 454 is loaded to such high velocities that the powder is very compressed and that is the problem with the crimp jumps.
Slowing them down a tad and alleviating the heavy compression will go a long way to eliminating crimp jump
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Re: Hornady
[Re: jwp475]
#75962
10/16/2010 2:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
Shootist
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Shootist
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836 |
The 454 is loaded to such high velocities that the powder is very compressed and that is the problem with the crimp jumps.
Slowing them down a tad and alleviating the heavy compression will go a long way to eliminating crimp jump
Yup, this is precisely why Buffalo Bore doesn't load their 360 grain load that hot. There is way too much emphasis on velocity with most commercial Casull ammo.
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Re: Hornady
[Re: Whitworth]
#75965
10/16/2010 5:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,280
Sawfish
veteran
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veteran
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Posts: 1,280 |
Good Shooting Makes Good Hunting Patron Member NRA; Life Member RMEF, SCI, NSRPA, CRPA: Member, FTRF, HHI #7108, CBA
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Re: Hornady
[Re: Sawfish]
#75969
10/16/2010 5:45 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 174
460Encore
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To be a bit more accurate this is from the Buffalo Bore site:
"The .454 Casull is one cartridge that Buffalo Bore Ammunition does not load to it's full pressure limit. When loaded to it's full pressure potential the .454 Casull can become unreliable and unpleasant to shoot. At upper pressure levels, heavy bullets tend to jump crimp - tying up the cylinder. (wouldn't this be great in an emergency) Also, fired brass can stick in the chambers.
Buffalo Bore Ammunition feels that a 360 gr. bullet (or 325 gr. bullet at 1525 fps) at 1425 fps is still very powerful, comfortable to shoot, and TOTALLY RELIABLE. At these levels, these bullets give up nothing in killing performance. "
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Re: Hornady
[Re: 460Encore]
#75970
10/16/2010 5:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
Shootist
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Shootist
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To be a bit more accurate this is from the Buffalo Bore site:
"The .454 Casull is one cartridge that Buffalo Bore Ammunition does not load to it's full pressure limit. When loaded to it's full pressure potential the .454 Casull can become unreliable and unpleasant to shoot. At upper pressure levels, heavy bullets tend to jump crimp - tying up the cylinder. (wouldn't this be great in an emergency) Also, fired brass can stick in the chambers.
Buffalo Bore Ammunition feels that a 360 gr. bullet (or 325 gr. bullet at 1525 fps) at 1425 fps is still very powerful, comfortable to shoot, and TOTALLY RELIABLE. At these levels, these bullets give up nothing in killing performance. " And Tim Sundles is spot on in my opinion.
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Re: Hornady
[Re: Whitworth]
#75978
10/17/2010 1:31 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 62
johnnyG
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Also forgot to mention that one of the cases had a double strike on the primer, dont know how that happened.
There is no stopping a man who is in the right and keeps on comming.
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Re: Hornady
[Re: johnnyG]
#75982
10/17/2010 2:46 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,116
GlennS
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,116 |
I have shot the 454 for about 10 years now and I've never had a slug jump crimp. It could happen tomorrow but I doubt it. What I found worked best for me was seating and crimping in two steps with RCBS dies. You can achieve the same style crimp that FA had on the ammo when they sold it in my opinion. I seat all of them and then come back and work the die down, obviously move the seating stem up before doing this, and keep easing in on the crimp until you get exactly what you want. No crushed cases and no crimps getting jumped. My 260 grain load runs out at over 1900 at the muzzle and the 300s are about 1625 so my loads are not weak by any means but I've never had an issue with crimp jumps. just my .02 GS
"Better to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt"
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Re: Hornady
[Re: johnnyG]
#75983
10/17/2010 3:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,655
wapitirod
Shootist
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Shootist
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Posts: 7,655 |
Also forgot to mention that one of the cases had a double strike on the primer, dont know how that happened. That's not uncommon with hard kicking double actions. It's called double tap.
I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them. John Wayne-The Shootist
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Re: Hornady
[Re: 460Encore]
#76042
10/18/2010 12:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
Shootist
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Shootist
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836 |
Interesting test -- thanks for posting the link.
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Re: Hornady
[Re: wapitirod]
#76049
10/18/2010 3:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 694
430man
addict
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addict
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Two revolvers we have found that have the worst bullet pull are the .454 and .50 Alaskan. Brass holding limits are exceeded from recoil. Heavier guns will help. Strange as it seems, bullets have a lot of inertia and kind of want to stay in place as the gun recoils too fiercely, brass can only hold so tight so don't think super crimps help much. Reduce recoil with lighter loads or a heavier gun and it will help.
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Re: Hornady
[Re: 430man]
#76054
10/18/2010 4:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
Shootist
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Shootist
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836 |
Two revolvers we have found that have the worst bullet pull are the .454 and .50 Alaskan. Brass holding limits are exceeded from recoil. Heavier guns will help. Strange as it seems, bullets have a lot of inertia and kind of want to stay in place as the gun recoils too fiercely, brass can only hold so tight so don't think super crimps help much. Reduce recoil with lighter loads or a heavier gun and it will help. .45 Colt anyone?
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Re: Hornady
[Re: Whitworth]
#76056
10/18/2010 4:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 62
johnnyG
OP
journeyman
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So aside from locking up your gun if the bullet comes out to far, i'm sure this efects accuracy and whatnot. I can always shoot it single shot...lol.
Last edited by johnnyG; 10/18/2010 4:55 PM.
There is no stopping a man who is in the right and keeps on comming.
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Re: Hornady
[Re: johnnyG]
#76058
10/18/2010 6:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,434
H2OBUG
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,434 |
I find that the size die and expander are a factor too--I find that the lee dies I have have better bullet tension than the RCBS group. The RCBS die do not move the brass as much but they do not seem to hold the bullets as tight-- Just another note I have always used the roll crimp and not the heavy crimp die the only load I ever had an issue with was a very hot 300XTP in the 454
My 45 colts and 44's have never been an issue
If it jams force it! If it breaks it needed replacing anyway.
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Re: Hornady
[Re: H2OBUG]
#76147
10/19/2010 9:00 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 174
460Encore
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member
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I have RCBS dies and just got the Lee Crimping die for my 454 today. Its nice to know you have a good crimp without worrying about crushing the shell wall.
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