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240grn Hornady XTP Performance #78668 11/23/2010 3:00 PM
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minnesotahunter Offline OP
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I shot a doe this year with my 44mag 5.5 inch SBH. Don't own a crono, but is was supposed to be going around 1300fps. Broadside shot, double lung(slightly high) at 40 yrds.

She ran 20yrds and piled up. I walked up to her right after the shot, and she was already dead. The bullet obviously performed great, but I was surprized to find only one hole. Did not hit either shoulder.

Is this normal? I know the XTPs are designed to open up, but on a straight broadside shot, I expected a pass through.

Thanks
MN

Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: minnesotahunter] #78670 11/23/2010 3:38 PM
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wizzard Offline
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Maybe it hit a rib? But it sounds like the bullet did it's job in opening up and not passing through thus transfering the energy to the deer. Did she go down then get up and run?

Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: wizzard] #78675 11/23/2010 4:57 PM
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minnesotahunter Offline OP
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Almost went down, but kept her feet and took off. Didn't go far though.

Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: minnesotahunter] #78679 11/23/2010 6:25 PM
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wizzard Offline
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Sounds about right I guess. I don't have a wealth of experience here. I was considering going with a lighter bullet with mine but settled on the 240g. Now I'm glad I did. Thanks for sharing.

Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: wizzard] #78683 11/23/2010 6:58 PM
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430man Offline
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The 240 does open fast and kills well but blood trails are sparse and if you don't see the deer go down because of rough country, you could lose one. I recovered all of mine with lung hits and have to wonder about a bone hit---NO THANKS, I switched bullets and then went to cast WLN and WFN boolits.

Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: 430man] #78689 11/23/2010 7:23 PM
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minnesotahunter Offline OP
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I think I'll switch back to the 300grn XTPs. Would like a little more room for error, or to engage the shoulders if needed. I went to the 240s this year because it matches the weight of the bullets we cast from wheelweights. I thought it would be less of a sight adjustment going to the hunting rounds. We have to use an expanding type bullet in MN-so no hardcasts for us.

Thanks
MN

Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: minnesotahunter] #78696 11/23/2010 9:07 PM
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Strange things happen. I shot a 105 lb doe last year with a .45 lc haring the 250 gr xtp. She was facing me with a slight angle. I hit her in the brisket/front shoulder and the bullet exited the opposite side, just in front of the hind quarter. Large exit hole (pics on bragging board) She went about 60 yards.
A few days later a shot a 70 lb doe with a .475 linebaugh using a 375 gr WFNGC. Shot was about 60 yards, went through both front shoulders broad sided. Deer ran over 100 yards and didn't bleed a drop, not even where it lay. Like to have never found it. That was my first kill with a cast boolit and I'm by no means gonna judge performance of the boolit on ghat one kill. I've seen to many weird things happen with whitetails. I've killed several deer with expanding bullets in .45 and .430 in weights from 180 gr to 300 gr and I have never retrieved a bullet.
Point is, maybe the was just one of them weird incidents. Don't give up on the 240 just yet, it's a great bullet for whitetails.


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Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: KRal] #78701 11/23/2010 10:15 PM
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Every deer is a little different. I've shot them at 100 yards with the 240 XTP in the lungs and the exit hole is 2" wide and they still run and don't start bleeding for 15 yards but then it pours out. On the other end of the spectrum, I hit a small Fallow deer last Spring that may have weighed 90 pounds or so. I was shooting a 454 Casull loaded with the 260 grain FA bullet leaving the muzzle at 1890 fps as per my chrono. She was hit at 107 yards and the bullet entered the front shoulder, and did not exit. It bloodshot the deer down both ribcages all the way to the hams and destroyed both front shoulders. Bullet maintained its weight at almost 80% but when hitting the second shoulder, it caused the bullet to turn I think and made the flat rear portion of the slug hit the hide on the offside. It must have stretched two feet out when it tried to exit because it was all "loose" on the other side when I checked her. But, that is the only bullet I've ever recovered from the Casull so don't give up on a bullet off one deer's reaction. The 240 XTP is a great deer bullet in the 44 magnum. Even works well with the muzzleloaders. Killed several with the bullet in the 50 cal with a sabot and have had excellent results. So don't throw it out with the dishwater just yet
\:\)


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Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: GlennS] #78705 11/23/2010 10:40 PM
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Good to know that the 240gr xtp did that good. I loaded up some but still stuck with the 300gr xtp. Mybe I will give them a try on the doe only hunt in 2 weeks.


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Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: DAHLTAILS] #78710 11/24/2010 12:41 AM
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minnesotahunter Offline OP
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Mabey I'll give em another shot, as I still have some left. Wow, I just looked, and that's the same bullets I have for my ML. Didn't even realize it. They are 50cal MagExpress sabots that use 240grn XTPs. I don't know if they are .44 or .45s though. Looks like 45s. Just a little bigger than my 44s. That's the last time I buy ML bullets packaged together. It'll be way cheaper to just buy a bag of sabots and some bullets. I've been wasting money!

Well, I guess they'll get another shot.

Thanks
MN

Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: minnesotahunter] #78711 11/24/2010 1:09 AM
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I've used bothe the 240's and the 300's in my muzzleloader, and have probably shot 8 to 10 deer with each. The 240's will get the job done, but the 300's will get it done better! With the 240's I've had to search for some deer without a blood trail, they don't go far, but they don't bleed much. With the 300's, BANG - FLOP! And you really can save a ton buying sabots and bullets seperate.


When in doubt, empty the magazine!
Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: badkitty] #78724 11/24/2010 3:47 AM
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On the note of buying ML bullets separately, my first Knight, a MK85 Predator would shoot the bulk backed Hornady sabots and XTP bullets much better than the prepackaged Knight bullets. Don't know whose sabot they used but my gun preferred the Hornady for some reason. It was an obvious difference. I found the 300 grain hornady to act more like a Hardcast in the 44 magnum. You don't usually see the expansion with the 300 at the lower velocities. The 300 seems to be considerably harder, much like the 300 XTP Mag version in the 45 that I used to use in the Casull.


"Better to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt"
Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: GlennS] #78725 11/24/2010 12:19 PM
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 Originally Posted By: GlennS
...The 240 XTP is a great deer bullet in the 44 magnum. Even works well with the muzzleloaders. Killed several with the bullet in the 50 cal with a sabot and have had excellent results. So don't throw it out with the dishwater just yet
\:\)


Ditto....240 gr .430 and 250 gr .452 XTP's work great saboted in ML's on whitetails. I run them at about 454 Casull velocities (~1900 fps).


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Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: wizzard] #78775 11/25/2010 4:01 AM
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 Originally Posted By: wizzard
Maybe it hit a rib? But it sounds like the bullet did it's job in opening up and not passing through thus transfering the energy to the deer. Did she go down then get up and run?



The fallacy that FPE is "transferred" is simply not correct and not possible. A bullet strike is an inelastic collision and as such most of the energy is transformed into other forms of energy Mostly Thermal energy.


Before the wide spread use of the electronic chronographs ballistic pendulums were used to determine the velocity. A bullet of known weight was shot into the pendulum and the distance the pendulum swung was measured. The swing distance of the pendulum measured the amount of "MOMENTUM" that was transferred (not energy) with the bullet weight and the momentum transfer now known the velocity needed for the amount of momentum transferred could easily be determined.
After the velocity was determined then and only then could the FPE be "Calculated". Energy is not tranfered and therefore can not be measured only calculated

Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: jwp475] #78778 11/25/2010 6:18 AM
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 Originally Posted By: jwp475
[quote=wizzard]

The fallacy that FPE is "transferred" is simply not correct and not possible. A bullet strike is an inelastic collision and as such most of the energy is transformed into other forms of energy Mostly Thermal energy.



Well, this explanation is not quite complete.

In it's being transformed into thermal energy, it is transformed into internal thermal energy that causes deformation of the body tissue and radiates outward from the collision point when involving mediums such as flesh.

SO, for all practical purposes, bullets do transfer energy.....it is just in unmeasurable and diverse forms.

Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: jwarren] #78779 11/25/2010 1:32 PM
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 Originally Posted By: jwarren
 Originally Posted By: jwp475
[quote=wizzard]

The fallacy that FPE is "transferred" is simply not correct and not possible. A bullet strike is an inelastic collision and as such most of the energy is transformed into other forms of energy Mostly Thermal energy.



Well, this explanation is not quite complete.

In it's being transformed into thermal energy, it is transformed into internal thermal energy that causes deformation of the body tissue and radiates outward from the collision point when involving mediums such as flesh.

SO, for all practical purposes, bullets do transfer energy.....it is just in unmeasurable and diverse forms.


Nope, that is done by the momentum transfer and the amount of direct applied force and the hydraulic pressure created which is a function of velocity

Rmemeber the ballistics pendulem measures momentum transfers "not energy", because energy can only be calculated.

Last edited by jwp475; 11/25/2010 1:33 PM.
Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: jwp475] #78784 11/25/2010 1:49 PM
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Like the guys said above, bullets and game can do weird things.
Because of that possibility and because it was accurate I switched to a standard, double crimp 300gr XTP in my FA 454 running around 1450FPS.The extra weight has never failed to penetrate on those not to perfect odd angle shots on 13 or so whitetail.
Talk about weird, I hit a fallow deer in the neck at 50yds with a full power 260gr partition that was stopped in the neck.
Good luck, James


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Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: jamesfromjersey] #78793 11/25/2010 3:23 PM
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 Originally Posted By: jamesfromjersey
Like the guys said above, bullets and game can do weird things.
Because of that possibility and because it was accurate I switched to a standard, double crimp 300gr XTP in my FA 454 running around 1450FPS.The extra weight has never failed to penetrate on those not to perfect odd angle shots on 13 or so whitetail.
Talk about weird, I hit a fallow deer in the neck at 50yds with a full power 260gr partition that was stopped in the neck.
Good luck, James



The 300 grain load that you are using sounds about perfect.

Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: minnesotahunter] #78796 11/25/2010 3:44 PM
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Here is a graph I copied off the Hornady web site, it gives the prfered velocity range for all XTP's for best performance. Maybe if your not having the results you are looking for with a particular slug this might explain it?

Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: wildcatter] #78800 11/25/2010 4:59 PM
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Looks like a good place to interject this image. I performed some testing of XTP's in my 460 Rowland earlier this year. The picture shows the second stack of wet news print, the first stack being 6 inches in depth. The lower left is the 230 xtp at 1300 fps, the middle bottom the 240 xtp at 1100 fps and the lower right the 250 xtp also at 1100 fps.

While these numbers do not correspond with 454 velocities, what I found interesting is that the 240 only penetrated 1 inch over the 250 xtp. With the 240 at 1100 fps being at the very low end of it's published velocity window, I expected it to barely open, and perhaps penetrate more like the top solid bullets. Nope. Still kinda puzzled over these XTP bullets, except for the fact that across the boards in the calibers that I have tried them they are always at the top of the accuracy list.

I will certainly be performing more tests with these bullets and my 454.

Craig

Last edited by Bearbait in NM; 11/25/2010 5:06 PM. Reason: image

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Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: jwp475] #78823 11/26/2010 12:41 AM
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 Originally Posted By: jwp475


Nope, that is done by the momentum transfer and the amount of direct applied force and the hydraulic pressure created which is a function of velocity



Most of the energy is converted to heat,causing distortion of the medium, so most kinetic energy "dissipates" in this action, but there is no conversion of momentum into thermal heat as momentum must be conserved.

Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: jwarren] #78825 11/26/2010 1:03 AM
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 Originally Posted By: jwarren
 Originally Posted By: jwp475


Nope, that is done by the momentum transfer and the amount of direct applied force and the hydraulic pressure created which is a function of velocity



Most of the energy is converted to heat,causing distortion of the medium, so most kinetic energy "dissipates" in this action, but there is no conversion of momentum into thermal heat as momentum must be conserved.



I agree, momentum is transfered in all collisions.

Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: jwp475] #78827 11/26/2010 1:40 AM
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I'm not sure if I follow all the momentum vs thermal energy stuff but if a moving bullet has "X" amount of energy and it hits an object And then stops, then the energy does not disappear, it is absorbed in the object. Not starting an argument just tryimg to remeber my high school physics.

Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: bothbarrels] #78856 11/26/2010 11:39 AM
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Never said that the energy dissapears. The energy is transformed into other forms of energy.

The ballistics pendulum prove that it is momentum that transfers and not energy

Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: jwp475] #78862 11/26/2010 2:47 PM
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 Originally Posted By: jwp475


The energy is transformed into other forms of energy.

The ballistics pendulum prove that it is momentum that transfers and not energy


In practical application, this back and forth is just an excercise
in semantics.

Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: jwarren] #78868 11/26/2010 3:57 PM
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TCTex. Offline
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(Donít split hairs on this one, and oh it is easy to do, just listen to my point.)

Well, lest do this mathematically, a 223 shooting a 55 gr bullet at 3300fps will give you 1330 fps of energy. That is over the 1000 suggested or recommended number to harvest a deer with, right.

What about a 44 Mag? A 300gr projectile at 1200 fps will give you 959 fps of energy. Oh, but I canít use that, I better switch to the 240 gr bullet 1400 fps so that will give me 1045 fps of energy. Right. I mean this is what the math is telling me, right?

And there is part of our dilemma. We, or in this case Taylor, invented the KO factor to account for numbers that we knew we didnít have to justify. Taylor already knew it from field work/testing. On paper the 223 out performs the 44 mag when comparing energy. Now which one would you rather take elk hunting?

My point is this, the inertia HAS to go somewhere. It could be converted into heat, dispensed and depleted on muscle and tissue, be converted into momentum transfers, (or all of the above) but it HAS to go somewhere.

Some times we get too caught up in the math to remember that this is Gods world and we are still catching up to his magnificence. We come up with figures like the KO factor that do work, but all they really do is justify and confirm what was already going on in the field. In short, I think the only real way to find out what is going on is to ask the deer. Oh wait... the deer is dead...

If you do your job and put the bullet in the right place I bet you the same results will happen time and time again. Cast, jacketed, depleted uranium + good bullet placement = dead deer. LOL


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Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: TCTex.] #78894 11/26/2010 11:23 PM
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very true TCman. that somes it up perfect.


shoot it if its still coming shot it again!!!
Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: dc74] #78904 11/27/2010 12:40 AM
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ohiostate Offline
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been hunting with the 240gr xtp in a 44 mag.. hopefully i' can get a deer with it WORM

Re: 240grn Hornady XTP Performance [Re: ohiostate] #78908 11/27/2010 1:23 AM
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i shot sevr deer with 240 xtp in 44 all good results. good luck to u Ohiostate....


shoot it if its still coming shot it again!!!

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