SHOT this year holds little promise for the handgun hunter. I fear we are at a crossroads on the handgun hunting front. Every year there are fewer companies that are supporting it and actually making guns suitable for the sport. It is not a good sign what is happening with T/C and I for one, doubt they will ever be back in production as they once were with the Encore and G2 and they aren't the only ones. It seems that if it's not tactical then it is of no interest to the manufacturers and I guess the American people as well. Once the guns are gone the bullets we shoot won't be far behind. Throw in a lead-bullet ban and we're done.

what's going on with the encore?

btw,i talked to ruger cust service the other day and what was once an innovative company that would keep a niche product for some available is now all about the lcp and their AR style gun, like we need another one on the market.

I don't know-- I now have my buddy in NC hooked on the Encore/G2 and even a SBH now.

Let someone hit a steel ram at 300+ yards and they will be hooked

He is a greenhorn with a MGM .243 AI 14" twist-- g2 MGM 30-30 AI and a 10" SBH with a 4X scope-- now has a LEE loader--

It is up to us to spread the fever cause they sure aint doin it on NPR!

It really is up to us, the handgun hunters, we have to actively go out & try to get others interested in our sport, no one is going to send them to us!
Three years ago I started teaching a ladies only handgun class, it has expanded to 3 classes a year with 15-20 ladies in each class...and all of them want THEIR own gun, I also let them bring any kid 18 or under, it has worked out much better than we ever thought it would.
I've also got a friend (doctor) interested in handguns, he shot a bull moose last fall with my custom Harton 5 shot 480, since them he's bought 7 more handguns. Not beating my own drum, just saying we have to promote our sport. We also have to keep after Ruger & Lipseys for more revolvers, they want to know what we want.
If you're a single shot guy then you have to keep after TC & let them know your interests. Whats the old saying about the "squeaky wheel"

Dick

Honestly, I can think of three manufactures that have dropped their bolt action pistols. Ruger has dropped the SRH in 480. (Luckily I got mine last month.) Truth be told, I think TC has seen this coming for quite some time. I think part of TC’s problem was all the quality after market barrels available. Ironically really, JD put TC on the map with his company and then the market was “flooded” with barrel makers. I think that is also the reason TC branched out and started making so many other products. Handgunning is just not a necessity for the majority of the hunters out there. The good thing for us is that the market has been flooded with TC frames and I think there will be aftermarket barrels for quite some time.

My assessment isn't so "gloom and doom." I think that we live in pretty good times right now (save for the economy and the government). I think TCs are are pretty specialized and they don't draw the attention and interest that revolvers do. There are a plethora of great revolvers in big calibers available today for handgun hunters. I think you will see an upward swing again when the economy rights itself (God willing soon).

Doom and Gloom already ?? I remember that in 1970 handgun hunters were RARE. And many states prohibited it.We've come a very long way ! Numerous big bore revolvers and larger single shots are available .Challenge ? Metallic silhouette for practice .22lr for squirrels to cape buffalo with the most powerful handgun cartridges.Take your pick and get out and shoot !!

I.M.H.S.A. thats what started me taking the handgun serious. C.A.S. is the big thing now lets get these people out in the fields with their big bore six guns. it may not be what is thought of as a " hunting handgun" but ill bet their as good with it as the hunter that shoot every month so so from the bench. lets lobby for a handgun hunting show on the outdoor networks. tell every one that will listen about your handgun hunting fun times.

did t/c quit making the encore?

No they haven't quit making the encore. But they are shutting down production for 9 mo. to move to the S&W plant. They have fired or laid off anyone there who knew how to make quality stuff and I would be surprised if they bounce back to what they once were.

spectacular, seems to happen when bought by the bigs. thankfully MR kept making and actually expanded the bfr line. sucks to hear.

I agree that we each have an opportunity to introduce others to the world of hunting with a handgun. I was "pushed" into it by a friend many years ago. Have not hunted with a rifle since.

Over the last four or five years, I have started seven new handgun hunters. In all cases I loaned them handguns, furnished ammo and spent time assisting them in learning to shoot them accurately. I have also introduced at least that many (who have not yet hunted with a handgun) to the pleasure of shooting an accurate handgun at "hunting" ranges. I am fortunate to have my own little shooting range with numerous swinging metal targets. This provides a good setting to introduce "new handgunners" to the potential of these revolvers and single shots. It is satisfying to see them learn to "hit" targets with a handgun at heretofore unbelievable distances.

We can each make a contribution to our sport by creating new participants.

Maybe it's just a new paradigm. Having seen the results of this test, set a Ruger Bearcat, a MKII and an AR in 22lr (pistol)down in front of some young kids watch what gets shot to heck (hint it is black and uber tactical). That is just a reality of todays culture. Now take those same kids and ask if they want to hunt some small game. They'll probably say yes, and want to use the AR. Fine, let them. Teach them to be safe responsible hunters. As many folks who handgun hunt do so after the rifles, after the archery after whatever, it is still the same path many of us have walked. Just different tools.

I bet you will see a lot of newer 22lr AR's at this years Shot. Certainly these are aimed at the budget minded folks, but I would also argue some marketing towards new shooters. Having big game hunted with proper AR calibers for quite a few years I can tell you it is about education. New shooters and us older folks alike.

Craig

I feel kinda like alot of folks,and the emphasis is on us."We" that already enjoy the sport need to share it with others.Slowly and surely if you act accordingly folks will take notice.One of the neighborhood kids that I hunt with often started shooting my handguns this year.I made sure to always leave him wanting a little more.If he does his part(grades and behaves) I am going to help him take his first deer with a handgun this year.

Sixshot I think what you've done with the ladies is awesome.There are folks that want to learn to handle handguns,all be it mostly for home and personal protection,but alot of folks just need exposure.

heck....the future of the world is in jeopardy! people in general get goofier every day.......

drugs
gays.....on n on.....till it ends.....

You can say that again!

It seems the last 3 years a very high percentage of folks are buying nothing but AR rifles and auto pistols. the firearms manufacturers know this and that is where they put their effort. I hope this mess with TC works out.

Bearbait, I agree. I can remember when I was first introduced to the contender, I was a smith man -revolvers and autos- and I could see no glamour or future in the "contender" - and then I shot one, or more accurately I watched one being shot,-pop cans then skoal cans at 100 yards- I tried my hand, and then I had to have one, and a spare barrel- it was big and noisy, and it really got the job done. I believe that those kids' interest in hand guns starts as a way to emulate what they have seen on TV, but let them handle it and try the real thing, and show them a game...and then you can create demand.

A friend of mine has 2 sons and they just reciently purchased handguns for personal protection. He asked if I could help them with their pistols. I said why sure, I have my own shooting range here at my house (100yds.) and they came down. I talked safety, talked about their guns etc. After a couple of hours they were doing fine , they actually listened to me!, We started talking hunting and mentioned that I hunted with handguns. Their response was "really". I said yeah, and took them into my man cave and showed them some of the deer I had taken with a handgun. "You killed that deer with a handgun!!!" was the first response. Then I showed them what I used. They were amazed. I grabbed the 243 Encore pistol, my Contender in 41mag. and some ammo, took them back outside to the range and let them fire a couple of rounds apiece. I believe they are hooked. Words like awesome, cool, wow, etc. The oldest said " I gotta get me one of these". Maybe I have converted two more to the handgun hunting fraternity. I have seen them since and they are still pumped up about it. I hope they are. Time will tell. I remember when I started caring handgun to deer hunt with and all my friends said I was crazy!!. When they all came back to the camp that evening and there was my best 8 pt. to date they were shocked to say the least. They quit making fun of me carrying a single shot handgun.

As for the T/C situation I hate that it's happening the way it is. In some circles it's called "progress". Companies buying each other out, people loosing jobs as well as the communities that it affects. Then quality goes to pot, people quit buying the products then they eventually shut down the merged company because they are producing junk. All that is left is another vacant building and more jobs out the door....

sorry , just blabbin' here, but I gotta agree with your assessment of what's gonna happen, which means... if'n you need a spare action, now would be the time to stock up. No tellin' when they are gonna cease production.- You make a lot of sense... could you 'splain that to my wife?

I don't see it as doom and gloom. I for one have introduced 4 people to handgun hunting over the last 6 years and we still hunt togather. we are always looking for newer and better ways to harvest with a handgun. As long as we all keep buying the guns, parts, and assesories they will provide us the tools!!!

Lars

I talked to two different people at Ruger,during SHOT, one was the head of the company, about re-producing the 480 and possibly in a 5-shot blackhawk. He told me that he gets that request almost daily. Don't get depressed and give up now.

Can't say the T/C situation is unexpected. S&W tooled up to produce their flagship 460 and 500 range of special purpose hunting handguns. Having done that they had to get rid of the competition ie buy out T/C and organize it's discontinuance.

Ruger quality has gone down the gurgler and they are cutting back on models. In general they seem to have lost interest in firearms and may evolve into general engineering.

In terms of general doom and gloom, I wouldn't be too worried. A few years ago in my country hunter numbers dropped markedly. One would go to ranges and there would only be us old bastards. But thing tend to go in cycles. These days the ranges are packed. Even better, most are young people taking up the sport. Hunting licences are booming and politicians are noticing the numbers.

Millions of year of human hunting instincts won't be swept away by temporary fads or the non-existence of any particular manufacturer.

I'm telling you, a 5 shot 480 is going to be a reality....if we keep asking, they have one built that they are testing so the tooling is there. If Lipsey's or some other distributor puts up the money, and they will, its going to happen. We just have to keep pounding the table, phone calls, emails, etc.
Back in the 50's everyone thought the single action was dead, Bill Ruger made millions of dollars & proved them wrong & I'll guarantee there are a lot more of us shooting them now than there was back then.

Dick

I hope Dick is correct and Gary is wrong..and agree that bringing more into the fold is necessary.

My latest gloom and doom is more focused on the political climate that I feel has changed a lot in the last few days. I have been busy writing my Senators and Congresswoman.

I know we are still a minority...I remember when being a bow hunter was the same. Now it seems EVERYONE is a bow hunter. The result here in Missouri has been longer seasons, bigger bag limits, etc. Not sure the answer. When is the last time you saw someone hunt with a handgun on TV..even though everyone with a camera these days seems to be making hunting shows?

The best road to popularity is through the magazines and outdoor TV shows. How do we get to them?

Like to see a GOOD hunting show with handgun hunters only. There's a few people out there that will use a handgun but they hardly mention what they are using other than "It's really fun" . Then they take an animal and that's about it. I guess the reason most won't use a handgun is because it's all about, them, where they are at, and who's hunting with them and how many monster bucks they "let walk" before they take one and maybe they figure that a handgun doesn't have the "reach" to make those long 200 yd. shots! LOL! Then there's some of those folks that I think have no business doing a hunting show. They do more harm than good by some of their actions. Our sport needs more GOOD in it. Sometimes I wonder if a hunting show should be named "Deer Thugs" ????

my .2cts.

Shortgun

Wow, a hunting handgun show would be great.
I imagine the only way one could survive is to have strong sponsors from companies that build handguns and accessories used for handgun hunting.
That may be a challenge in itself right there.

The other would be to get a crew together who has the time and skill to film and hunt and the funds to make it happen.
You would want personality (the ability to market themselves) and skill to make it happen.
Not to mention someone who is a recognized personality or a person whose skill is such it would draw attention and respect from handgun hunters.

Hey guys, just my .02 cents but I think the lack of hunters and anti-hunting is the real problem. I have to admit that though the tactical craze is a big issue. Everyone thinks they can be a SWAT member or sniper but not one is a 1000 is really capable. Lts face it, deer is Pa with a centerfire gun is a measly two weeks with only 2 Saturdays to hunt. Other States are probably the same. How many people really shoot a lot? I try for every week-end, but in reality it comes to 2x/month amube except when I shoot steel and IDP on Wednesday nights from may to October. Go to Cabela's and look at teh sales...Black guns and Tactical bolt actions and self-defense type handguns. Add that to a new TC Encore at almost $700 and you can see why guys are not buying. barrels are out of sight now. I am glad I have a bunch.

The future is now---just do it!!

I would like to have more regonal shoots--like the guys in PA do--I think those types of events dial up a lot of intrest

Good ideas...

Gary here has been on that road; and is still, trying to make it happen.

I am here selling my videos, trying to make it happen.
http://www.hunterseyevideo.com

It takes a lot of effort and personal expense, both in time and in US Dollars.

We are in this together, and together we can make it happen.

I really believe there is merit to that idea. One of the things I believe really spurred bowhunting was 3D matches.
Woodswalk type matches with steel hit/no hit (kill zone)targets would be a kick. Taks lots of ground to do a 20 target trail walk safely.

I have never even put together a video like Gregg has, little alone a cable TV program. I know it ends up being a work of love, and there is way more time and effort than most people realize.

One of the challenges would be to have several handgun hunters that are uniquely specialized in a specific type of handgun and or shooting and hunting, to show how diversified handgun hunting is.

Like iron sight revolver, versus scope.

Put on a guy who specializes using iron sights for hunting.
Then focus on the most commonly used brands and models used for big game versus varminting.
Have another guy who has proven himself using a revolver with an optic.

Challenges of more typical large big bore revolvers versus the big hammers.
Stand versus, spot-n-stalk, etc.
Styles of field shooting

It would work the same way with single-shots.
This could show incredible diversity, and products, instead of rabbiting one or two brand names.

Something like this would not necessarily rely on one specific personality, but rather a host.

It would show from the general to the extreme.
From stock to full-blown custom.

When I watch some hunting programs I almost want to puke when all they use is the same stuff, as if it is the only product and the only way to get it done well.
I understand you have to use the sponsors stuff if you want to get paid, hence you are boxed in.

The overdone emotion is another issue.
Everyone reacts differently when hunting, why not just be honest?
I guess this is why I am not in TV.
Plus, I have the perfect face for radio

My rambling thoughts...

A guy (John Giambrone) from Aim Outdoors called me the other night and said he was working on a TV program regarding handgun hunting. He was asking me questions and telling me a little about the project. Doug Koenig will be the host and S&W one of the major sponsors. We'll see what happens

I've taken my son hunting he didn't like it. He would much rather go fishing.

I haven't been hunting in about 3 years. After I returned from Iraq I picked up 4 new guns but nothing hunting related.

I was planning on taking a hog hunt for a weekend but my son and I decided to go fishing instead. I haven't shot my TC's for over a year but.

As of now I have no plans to hunt year.

Doug is obviously a great handgunner but he's not exactly Mr. Personality. Can't quite see him hosting a tv show but maybe I'm wrong.

As I watch my kids grow up I'm beginning to really understand that a day doing just about anything with them is better than a day doing just about anything without them!!! I can't believe my oldest is getting married this summer. There were a ton of things that her & I were going to do together that I never had (made) time for.
Enjoy your fishing time with your son...

Exactly my thoughts...and ideas Vance. Does not take a lot of ground..just the right ground. I have a 16 target course laid out just like that on my land, and we (friends and family) shoot it often. There is room for more too. I like to change up the targets with the different seasons..etc. We have made up several "games" that are a lot of fun. I got the idea from archery 3D which I used to shoot all the time. We have talked about having an actual competition...who knows..might work. It is great practice for hunting and I think it has improved my ability. I know it has raised my confidence level a lot.

It is hard to get new people interested, Heck we have a hard time getting people that do shoot handguns to participate.

Over at Specialty Pistols, I help setup and run the Eastern NC(and VA) Spring and Fall Bull shoots. It is just a informal get together where we do some shooting of guns mostly handguns, but some rifles and some shooting of the Bull!

The range is a 300 yard range located in Roanoke Rapids. We provide a good lunch and good fellowship. Even though this is a SP shoot everyone is Welcome!

We have struggled to get shooters to participate. Last falls shoot we had two new shooters so we had 8 shooters there.

Everyone says they have no place to shoot, but when you set a date they can't make it.