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Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: wtroper] #101646 01/28/2012 2:18 AM
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Whitworth Offline
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That's okay!! They can be converted!


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Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: tracker77] #101651 01/28/2012 3:36 AM
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 Originally Posted By: tracker77
UPDATE!! It has come to mine and my local guns shop's attention that Ruger makes an overwhelming majoraty of the Bisley Blackhawks in 44 mag. After a three day search David (the owner/operator of my local gun shop) has come back with only one distributer that even has a Bisley in stock. Actually they had 5 and every one of them is a 44. That distributer was of course
Davidson's. No other distributer could even say when they were going to get any Bisleys but the general theme from them all was that when they get them they usually get them in 44 and dont see many 45 colts. Added to that is that they all have a pretty long back order list for the 45 colt Bisley so even if they did get one they would ship them out to dealers that are already on the list. First come first serve. Thats fair to all. So as much as I had my heart set on a 45 Bisley it looks like availability and an undeterminable waiting list have made the decision for me. The Bisey 44 will be here monday! (Im gonna love it!)


go on Gunbroker.com, they have a ton of them. Although I have an FFL since I'm a mfg I don't buy in volume so I don't get the big breaks. I just bought a brand new in the box never fired stainless Bisley Blackhawk in 45 for 470.00 from another dealer and that was hitting the buy now button. The gun is destined to become a 480 and then is going to Johannesburg SA to a British Zoologist working down there. I was going to convert a standard stainless blackhawk but word from midway is that Ruger has discontinued making extra stainless bisley grip frames although I have not confirmed it with Ruger. I just decided it was easier to buy a stainless bisley to convert. Take a look you may get a better price than your dealer would have given you depending on his transfer fees, just don't tell him what you paid for it.


I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them. John Wayne-The Shootist


Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: wapitirod] #101667 01/28/2012 2:09 PM
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Im honestly just as happy having a Bisley 44 as I would be having a Bisley 45. I was looking for a Bisley 44 when I bought my SBH stainless. Having the Bisley in 44 makes my mind up about what my next Ruger will be.......flattop 45 colt!!!! My deal with David at the gun shop was a trade. What I wanted was a Bisley and I have one on the way. I will buy the flattop 45 thru gunbroker in a couple weeks and have the 45 colt covered. I really appreciate all the input and have no fear I WILL have a 45 colt.


Do not take your greatness to the graveyard!!
Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: RioHondoHank] #101770 01/29/2012 5:55 PM
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Why the 45 over the 44? I thought the 45 would be a slower round?

Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: notrab] #101772 01/29/2012 6:01 PM
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 Originally Posted By: notrab
Why the 45 over the 44? I thought the 45 would be a slower round?


http://www.handgunhunt.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/101199/page/2#Post101199


Rod, too.

Short cuts often lead to long recoveries.
Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: s4s4u] #101795 01/29/2012 10:07 PM
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tradmark Offline
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you'll never shoot anything that will walk away and say, whew, glad he was only shooting a 44mag, now had it been a 45 colt i'd be dead.

minute differences in size of a bullets diameter are typically only seen by those looking for them, or justifing an expensive purchase. i'd be just happy as punch shooting a 44 instead of a 45 colt or vice versa.

Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: tradmark] #101799 01/29/2012 10:49 PM
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 Originally Posted By: tradmark
you'll never shoot anything that will walk away and say, whew, glad he was only shooting a 44mag, now had it been a 45 colt i'd be dead.

minute differences in size of a bullets diameter are typically only seen by those looking for them, or justifing an expensive purchase. i'd be just happy as punch shooting a 44 instead of a 45 colt or vice versa.


I'll remind you of that the next time you want to take your .454 on a big game hunt. LOL!
In fact, I'll make you a deal, I'll trade you a .44 Magnum for every one of your .454s (hey, gotta try!) -- starting with one of those tasty FA 83s!


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Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: Whitworth] #101842 01/30/2012 3:33 AM
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tradmark Offline
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haha, i've always said i use the 454 instead of the others b/c of my commitment to being good enough with the cartridge at extended ranges, in hunting situations at largely unknown distances which i'm good at judging but being off 25 yards or so is bad. that said, you can't have my FA.
\:D
however, i will be starting to experiment with more calibers and have what i consider to be a neat project under my belt right now.

Last edited by tradmark; 01/30/2012 3:34 AM.
Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: tradmark] #101849 01/30/2012 4:23 AM
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So it has nothing to do with the fact the the 45 shoots a larger diameter bullet and penetrates deeper leaving more wound channel destruction

Yea I got ya

Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: jwp475] #101954 01/31/2012 4:04 AM
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Well, only someone as arrogant as yourself jwp would pretend to know
My motives better than myself.

That said, only a wishful thinker would pretend to notice a bigger
Wound channel b/w a 45 colt vs a 44 mag. And it would take more naivety than I could possibly describe to think any difference would matter when killing something.

Bigger and significantly faster may very well produce a significant wound channel especially when dealing with expandables but there I go again using evil words like expandable and velocity.

Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: tradmark] #101960 01/31/2012 7:10 AM
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This question does have a logical answer. "Yes"

They both have their places. I'm a 45 Colt guy after Linebaugh's readings. In fact both he and his son are both building guns for me.

Nothing wrong with the 44. I think the 44 special is pretty awesome. 250 Keith at 1100 fps. 45 Colt using 320gr LFN at 1100 is also impressive.

In the wheel guns, I like 1100 ish FPS. Adjust bore size and weight to take on larger targets.


Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: tradmark] #101973 01/31/2012 11:53 AM
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 Originally Posted By: tradmark


That said, only a wishful thinker would pretend to notice a bigger
Wound channel b/w a 45 colt vs a 44 mag. And it would take more naivety than I could possibly describe to think any difference would matter when killing something.


Is it wishful thinking to expect a larger wound channel from a .475 over a .45 Colt or .454? If it is, perhaps there is no purpose at all for larger calibers. The difference in size is roughly the same moving from a .45 to a .475 as it is a .44 mag to a .45. Changed my mind about your .454, please send me your .475 instead -- since it's redundant. LOL!

Look, not trying to be combative here, but when I hear that a .45 doesn't make a discernably larger wound channel than a .44, I feel the compulsion to point out that the size difference is nearly on par as that of the .45 and .475 and yet people wanting a larger wound channel over a .45, move up to the .475 and no one seems to question their motive beyond that. So, no need to get defensive here, just discussing.


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Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: Whitworth] #101985 01/31/2012 3:56 PM
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well, here goes, i don't feel the 475 does anything significantly better than my 454 depending on loads used. in my hands it is a fairly redundant caliber though a great one. there's a dogma around here that many don't question b/c they just don't wanna argue. you have to buck the dogma around here and talk about velocity, which despite what ya try and push, is important. may not be the most important thing, but it is a significant factor in all of this.

listen, the conventional wisdom is that a 45 colt is better for the handloader b/c it can be pushed to the same velocities as the 44 mag but with a larger bullet, fair enough, and that is correct, still don't think ya see a diff but whatever. but if VELOCITY didn't matter the standard pressure 45 colt rounds at about 800fps would be superior to full pressure 44 mag rounds but they clearly are not. the velocity matters as long as the bullet holds together and maintains it's integrity.

so ya got the issue of bigger versus faster, and then ya got bigger AND faster. in big bullets the 475 can be loaded be both bigger and faster but it's not shootable in any way to me so i don't care what it could be loaded to the same way i don't load 400 gr bullets to 1600fps in the 454 either. in standard factory loads i've never seen a significant difference in any way and if i did i'd have a house full of 475's, but then again, if i continued on that thinking i'd be jumping up to a 500 WE or 500 jrh, which would inevitably lead me to only want a 500 smith. so.........eventually ya ask what's enough? well if it kills an elephant then it sure as hell's enough for an elk or anything we all hunt on a regular basis.

this is not to bash anyone's favorite caliber but just to shed some light on my motives on what i shoot. it's about having the flattest trajectory in a normal size wheel gun i can, in a caliber i can kill any game on planet earth with. this is what i've come up with after shooting damn near as many 1000+ lb animals as anyone here but having no "friendships" with any gunsmiths or caliber inventors.

Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: tradmark] #101990 01/31/2012 4:58 PM
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Everyone has their pet cartridges and that's the beauty of living in America. No government to dictate the calibers and how many handguns I can own... I have never gotten into the 45 Colt. I reload but also can't walk into just anyplace and pick up a box of 45 Colt hunting loads like I can for the .44 Magnum. I don't think any animal well shot with a .44 or .45 will ever have known the difference. I don't shoot the 45 Colt because I have a 454 and if I'm going for less power/recoil or whatever then I use the .44. If I want a bigger hole and a heavier bullet then I shoot the 475.


You can't wait any longer. Join the NRA and start writing your Congressmen and Senators.
Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: Gary] #101997 01/31/2012 6:12 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Gary
Everyone has their pet cartridges and that's the beauty of living in America. No government to dictate the calibers and how many handguns I can own...


Not yet, at least -- LOL!


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Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: tradmark] #102010 01/31/2012 7:40 PM
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This is deep science here fellows, so try to stay with me. When I am in brown bear country, the .44 mag on my hip gives me more comfort than the .357, the .45 comforts me more than the .44, and with the .454 cylinder slid in the FA , I feel even better yet. But, with a Marlin .45-70 also on hand slid down in my saddle boot I can positivly whistle as I go. I don't understand all of the math, but the bigger the brute the bigger the bullit seems like pretty simple, common sence to me.
\:\)


If it were supposed to be easy, they'd have sent my little sister to do it.
Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: briarhopper] #102012 01/31/2012 8:26 PM
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very true, hopefully not ever, but i feel the govt is gonna force some very tough decisions soon.

Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: tradmark] #102016 01/31/2012 10:49 PM
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So.....I got the Bisley 44 monday morning. Right out of the box I tried the trigger. I dont have a trigger pull scale but what I can tell you is its HEAVY!! Not only that it has some grit and a lot of take up. Was really surprised at how crappy it was. I would put it at 6+lbs on a guess. So just for S&Gs I took it out to shoot it to see how it did. It took a truck load of focus on that trigger but it shoots pretty good. Doing the seated Skeeter Skelton I shot about a 3inch group at 50yrds with some 240gr Big Green factory ammo. Been wanting to burn it up for the brass anyway. For an iron sight gun Im impressed with it so far. Ill hit the bench tomorrow while its raining and load up some of my perfered pills and see how it does. May have to have something done about the trigger though.


Do not take your greatness to the graveyard!!
Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: tracker77] #102018 01/31/2012 10:56 PM
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Congratulations on the arrival! I would say that 3" at 50 yards with iron sights right out of the box is a great start, at least for me it would be. Especially with a stiff trigger.


If it were supposed to be easy, they'd have sent my little sister to do it.
Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: tradmark] #102019 01/31/2012 11:12 PM
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 Originally Posted By: tradmark
Well, only someone as arrogant as yourself jwp would pretend to know
My motives better than myself.

That said, only a wishful thinker would pretend to notice a bigger
Wound channel b/w a 45 colt vs a 44 mag. And it would take more naivety than I could possibly describe to think any difference would matter when killing something.

Bigger and significantly faster may very well produce a significant wound channel especially when dealing with expandables but there I go again using evil words like expandable and velocity.



I can look at the entrance hole and tell which were shot with a 45 or 44 as long as the two animals are together. It is demonstrable and probable that the 45/454 penetrates deeper and leaves a more destructive wound channel when like bullets are used. This is not opinion this is a fact.

The same goes for the 475's and 500's VS the 45/454's of the world.

The faster projectile and larger diameter of the 45/454 VS the 44 means more destructiveness, plain and simple.


Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: briarhopper] #102021 01/31/2012 11:15 PM
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 Originally Posted By: briarhopper
This is deep science here fellows, so try to stay with me. When I am in brown bear country, the .44 mag on my hip gives me more comfort than the .357, the .45 comforts me more than the .44, and with the .454 cylinder slid in the FA , I feel even better yet. But, with a Marlin .45-70 also on hand slid down in my saddle boot I can positivly whistle as I go. I don't understand all of the math, but the bigger the brute the bigger the bullit seems like pretty simple, common sence to me.
\:\)



Agreed......

Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: jwp475] #102027 02/01/2012 12:34 AM
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Im hoping that with a lot of dry fire exercise and shooting the trigger will smooth out some.

As a side note I went back and read some of the posts that have been made. My request for advice was never meant to provoke anyone into insulting anyone else. My whole problem was solved when my dealer couldnt get the Bisley in anything but 44. Im happy with it. I am thankful for the help and advice. But some of you need to calm down. This is a forum for open discourse on the subject of handguns and their use in hunting. When we reach the point of throwing insults at eachother we are no longer helping anyone. As handgun hunters we should take enough pride in our sport to respect eachother and not degenerate a request for help into mud slinging gentlemen.


Do not take your greatness to the graveyard!!
Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: tracker77] #102029 02/01/2012 12:44 AM
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s4s4u Offline
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 Quote:
Im hoping that with a lot of dry fire exercise and shooting the trigger will smooth out some.


It will help. You might try a Wolff spring change as well, it really makes a difference.


Rod, too.

Short cuts often lead to long recoveries.
Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: tracker77] #102030 02/01/2012 12:45 AM
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Whitworth Offline
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 Originally Posted By: tracker77
Im hoping that with a lot of dry fire exercise and shooting the trigger will smooth out some.

As a side note I went back and read some of the posts that have been made. My request for advice was never meant to provoke anyone into insulting anyone else. My whole problem was solved when my dealer couldnt get the Bisley in anything but 44. Im happy with it. I am thankful for the help and advice. But some of you need to calm down. This is a forum for open discourse on the subject of handguns and their use in hunting. When we reach the point of throwing insults at eachother we are no longer helping anyone. As handgun hunters we should take enough pride in our sport to respect eachother and not degenerate a request for help into mud slinging gentlemen.


The Hunter series revolvers are only available in .44 Magnum at this time. My Bisley Hunter had a terrible trigger out of the box, but 430man slicked it up and we installed a Wolf spring and now it is very nice. You will be happy with it, I am sure!


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Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: Whitworth] #102051 02/01/2012 10:24 AM
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Ill try the Wolf srpings if it doesnt smooth out soon. Thanks. Whit I didnt get a Hunter. I got a standard blued Bisley. Honestly (and Im not poo pooing anyones choice here) I dont like the Hunter model Bisley or Standard grip. They dont point well for me and feel to front end heavy. I have shot them and they are fine shooters no doubt. They just dont feel right to me.


Do not take your greatness to the graveyard!!
Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: tracker77] #102053 02/01/2012 11:00 AM
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 Originally Posted By: tracker77
.......shot about a 3inch group at 50yrds with some 240gr Big Green factory ammo....


I'd call that good! The .44 will serve you very well.


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Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: jwp475] #102054 02/01/2012 11:02 AM
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 Originally Posted By: briarhopper
This is deep science here fellows, so try to stay with me. When I am in brown bear country, the .44 mag on my hip gives me more comfort than the .357, the .45 comforts me more than the .44, and with the .454 cylinder slid in the FA , I feel even better yet. But, with a Marlin .45-70 also on hand slid down in my saddle boot I can positivly whistle as I go. I don't understand all of the math, but the bigger the brute the bigger the bullit seems like pretty simple, common sence to me.
\:\)


Very well said!


Exodus 20:5-11
Matthew 5:18
Revelation 22:14

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Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: tracker77] #102056 02/01/2012 11:55 AM
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Whitworth Offline
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 Originally Posted By: tracker77
Ill try the Wolf srpings if it doesnt smooth out soon. Thanks. Whit I didnt get a Hunter. I got a standard blued Bisley.


No matter, same trigger!


Max Prasac

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Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: Whitworth] #102060 02/01/2012 3:08 PM
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The trigger will benifit from the wolf springs ,but will never smooth out to your satisfaction . The gritty feel will stay until you do ,or have done some polishing of the bearing surfaces. The trigger dosen't need to be super light but it does need to be smooth.It is time or money well spent.
Enjoy your .44!!!!!!!!!!!!!With the standard Blackhawk grip frame there are lots of aftermarket grips available if the standard grips don't suit you.


junebug
Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: junebug] #102061 02/01/2012 3:35 PM
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Tracker,

I am more particular than some with respect to the trigger pull on revolvers. I have been very satisfied with the work that Rod has done on a couple of mine. You might consider him (or another qualified individual) to do a good trigger job on your Ruger. I have never been satisfied with a Ruger revolver that has not had the trigger worked over.


It's more important where you hit 'em, than what you hit 'em with.
Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: wtroper] #102062 02/01/2012 4:29 PM
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 Quote:
I have never been satisfied with a Ruger revolver that has not had the trigger worked over.


I'm with you on the single actions, but I was pleasantly surprised with the SA trigger pull on my GP100 and SRH. My Bisley Hunter .41 had a poor trigger out of the box, but my Bisley 45LC must have been worked over by the previous owner 'cause it is excellent. For most folks just a spring change will make all the difference, but there is no substitute for an action job if you can afford one.


Rod, too.

Short cuts often lead to long recoveries.
Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: wtroper] #102063 02/01/2012 4:32 PM
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Im gonna give it a couple hundred rounds to smooth out. If that doesnt work I will contact Rod. It wont take me long to roll out and shoot that many thru the Bisley.
wtroper are you in Hereford, TX Deaf Smith county, boyhood home of Charles A. Skelton?


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Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: tracker77] #102070 02/01/2012 6:23 PM
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Rugers are pretty easy to disassembe if you have some skills at doing this kind of work. There is a method that can help with the trigger that does not require dis-assembly, but it has its limitations. A couple of variations:

1) Make sure the the trigger sear area is decently oiled. Pull the hammer back, and place forward pressure on the hammer while releasing the trigger. Do it a lot of times. I like to control the hammer fall, but the idea is to put increased pressure and the sear hammer hook juncture, to force the surfaces to smooth some.

2) Seen this variation in Cowboy action "tips", where you do as above, but fill the inside of your frame with toothpaste. The toothpaste acts as a mild abrasive, and repeated cycling will help with any burrs, and will generally polish.

Mostly ways to expedite the process of firing hundreds or thousands of rounds to get that "broke in" feeling. Never done 2, but I almost always do 1 with any gun that starts out gritty or hitchy.

Craig


Northern born and Southern bred
Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: Bearbait in NM] #102073 02/01/2012 7:27 PM
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Tracker,

Yup, I live here -- feedlot capital of the world. Almost anyone who has even driven through Deaf Smith County will testify about the odor from the feedlots. We just think that it smells like money. LOL


It's more important where you hit 'em, than what you hit 'em with.
Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: wtroper] #102074 02/01/2012 7:32 PM
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minnesotahunter Offline
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Sounds like the old "poor boys trigger job". One more step that will cut the trigger weight in half is to take off the grips, and lift one spring arm off the peg.

I have done this to 3 different Rugers, and they really improve the trigger.

Not as good as an actual trigger job, but miles above the factory trigger.

MN

Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: minnesotahunter] #102142 02/02/2012 2:18 PM
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tracker77 Offline OP
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wtroper that must be very cool to live in the home town of Mr. Skelton. As far as the feedlots go, well we all have to do what we have to do to make a living and someone has to have feedlots.

minnesotahunter...thats the first thing I did. Learned that old trick from a friend. It does help alot but this one is still pretty bad.


Do not take your greatness to the graveyard!!
Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: tracker77] #102920 02/13/2012 12:40 AM
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tracker77 Offline OP
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So for everyone who voted for the 45Colt I wanted everyone to know that I now own a Blackhawk 45 Colt/ACP flattop in 4 5/8" blued. Its a shooter in either round. Im lovin it. Thanks for all the help guys!!


Do not take your greatness to the graveyard!!
Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: tracker77] #102921 02/13/2012 12:54 AM
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Whitworth Offline
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 Originally Posted By: tracker77
So for everyone who voted for the 45Colt I wanted everyone to know that I now own a Blackhawk 45 Colt/ACP flattop in 4 5/8" blued. Its a shooter in either round. Im lovin it. Thanks for all the help guys!!


Awesome score!! Congratulations!! Let's see some photos!


Max Prasac

Semper Fidelis

BIG IRON: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6aXjMH5C30

Gun Digest TV's Modern Shooter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGo-KMpXPpA&t=7s

Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: tracker77] #102922 02/13/2012 1:03 AM
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jwp475 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: tracker77
So for everyone who voted for the 45Colt I wanted everyone to know that I now own a Blackhawk 45 Colt/ACP flattop in 4 5/8" blued. Its a shooter in either round. Im lovin it. Thanks for all the help guys!!



Way to go, you'll love it

Re: New gun time....44 mag or 45 colt??? [Re: jwp475] #102975 02/13/2012 11:10 PM
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tracker77 Offline OP
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I uploaded some photos in the member gallery of both the Bisley 44 I got in the original trade and the flattop 45. Hope you like them.


Do not take your greatness to the graveyard!!
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