So Im in a deal with my local gun shop and I can get a new big bore. I have loved the bisley grip since I lucked into a buddy with a FA 454 that needed money. I cant afford to replace that gun but I can lay hands on a new Ruger Bisley. Which one should I buy? I have a SBH stainless already that is a great gun but I have never liked the dragoon trigger guard or the way the plow handle grip forces me to reset my firing grip with every shot. I was looking for a bisley when I got this gun but settled on the SBH because of the deal I got. I can load either 44 or 45 colt. My intended uses are hogs, bears, dear and if I ever draw a tag from the state elk. So what would you guys get and why?

45 Just because?

I am a fan of .45 Colt over .44 mag. See John Linebaugh's writings.

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm

45 then later you can send it to Rod to become another 454.

.45 Colt, of course!

I'm a big 45 Colt fan.

I have to ditto the 45

I researched this quite a bit and went with the 44 because of ammo availability...if you reload it is not an issue...

Good choice to have to make!

Another vote for the 45. It's bigger and you know what they say " Size matters".

44mag!!! no difference when it comes to which will kill what. the ruger bisley hunter model would give you a bisley grip, round trigger guard, and a great way to mount your scope.

You mean like this? Hard to find but also available in .45 Colt.

I have several of each and shoot them all equally well. If I were faced with any of the game you mentioned, I'd choose either one and feel just fine with it.

Either caliber will do what you want done. Choose the one that appeals most to you.

44s have become quite commonplace while 45 Colts (heavy loaded) still provide some differentiation. More "snob appeal" with the 45, but the 44 still does a good job & IMHO with a wider selection of projectiles.

.429 vs .451= .022 difference... As wtroper say`s above "Either caliber will get the job done", so I`ll repeat what was most often the answer to this question in the gun mags. "If you reload choose the 45, if not then choose the 44".... Personally, I would take the 45 Colt....

If you go with the .45, and later purchase another gun in .454, you can shoot the .45's in it also. Good for light practice, or hunting smaller critters. Just my .02 cents worth

There is no replacement for displacement ;-)

Also keep in mind that while the above is only about a 5% difference, what counts in performance is area rather than diameter, which calculates to about 10%.

This means that besides providing a larger wound channel that you can obtain the same velocity with less pressure and less recoil.

The .44 Mag... 'cause I like it, and the chambers won't be oversized.

Yup, and almost the same difference between the various .45s and the .475 yet no one denies that the .475 is a bigger and more effective hammer. I'll take the .45 over the .429 Magnum, thank you very much!! LOL!

45 Colt, because it is higher on the food chain than the 429 mag

Ok guys.....I love my 44 and have been a big fan of Mr. Keith's opinions for a long time. I have to say that EVERYTHING I have hit with a 250gr Keith @ 1100 fps has gone down no problem. That said I went to the Linebaugh link and read Mr. Linebaugh's write up on the 45 colt. I shot a whole summer of heavy 45s when I had the FA and I will say that everything I read on the link was true. I got less recoil and more controlability out of the 45 colt heavy loads at the same velocities as my 44 mag. Less BLAST too. Seeing as how I already have a 44 and can load for either .....I am going to order the 45 Colt. Thanks for all the input and the Linebaugh link. Ill let everyone know when the Bisley gets here and what I think of it. (Im gonna love it!!!)

.45, bigger wound channel.

Great news!! Keep us posted!

Glad you found the answer you were looking for. I too found that Linebaugh link very interesting and informative. Keep us posted.

There's somethin about a FortyFive.....

Yes indeed!

If you have larger hands, you may need to rotate your grip (rotate in a horizontal plain) in order to keep your knuckle away from the back of the Ruger Bisley trigger guard on heavy loads. I find the FA grip frame ideal for my hand, and I thought that the Ruger Bisley was close enough to be a good fit. After getting my knuckles busted a few times with heavy 44Mag loads, I called John Linebaugh (since he made the gun for me recently) and he told me about the rotate trick. Anyway, it did work, but then my trigger finger was in somewhat of a poor position to allow me to squeeze straight back. However, when I shot lighter loads that didn't bust the knuckle, I maintained good finger geometry and fired it very accurately (4.75" barrel). After getting out a ruler, I found that the FA does offer a few millimeters more space for the knuckle, and shooting heavy-recoiling cartridges from it is no problem. But if you're going to use the Ruger Bisley for heavy recoil and you have large hands, you'll need to make some adjustments to the way you grip the gun. So you have to ask yourself, do you want to fit the gun to you or adjust yourself to fit the gun. I think at a certain price point, fellas ought to be giving more consideration to buying what fits their hand more naturally to facilitate recoil and accurate shooting. Few revolvers are more beautiful than a blued Ruger Bisley, but for me, I think I'd rather own just one good FA than three Rugers. Since I custom load, I can make the few revolvers I do have to just about anything I want. I don't think it's necessary to load for both the 44Mag and 45Colt in this day and age. One thing the Linebaugh writings don't address so much is that if the 44Mag and 45Colt are firing the same weight bullet at the same velocity, sure the Colt will have less pressure, but the 44 also has more sectional density, which means (theoretically) better ballistic coefficient and sectional density (penetration). The BC tends not to be much of a factor at short distances, but depending on the shot placement, so shooters might appreciate a little more sectional density to aid in the penetration on their shot. If it were me buying the Ruger Bisley again, I'd get the 45Colt since it can be downloaded and shot comfortably with those with smaller hands, my wife, or a youngster starting out. If the Bisley fits already and you don't handload, the 44Mag will have better cartridge selection, but since you do handload and don't mind loading for both the 44 and 45, and assuming it fits you well, already, then go for the 45Colt and find a good cast bullet that fits it. (Sorrr for such a long post, guys!)

Actually, I recently pitted the .44 Mag against the .45 Colt in a penetration contest using factory loads from Grizzly Cartridge -- the 300 grain WFN against their 300 .45 Colt LFN load. The .45 handily out penetrated the .44 despite the "advantage" of a greater sectional desity. Plus, the .45 has a decided edge in the pressure department and develops 20% less than that .44 Mag load. While this is not conclusive, it seems to happen more often than not.

I have large hands and I grip Bisleys with only two fingers and my pinky finger under the grip. This moves my knuckle away from the trigger guard and I find I don't tend to over grip the gun an shoot better.

I hold the Bisley with all 3 fingers on the handle and have never had a problem with the trigger guard, and I shoot near max to max loads. I don't know why some do, nor can I explain what I may do differently, but it works for me.

Ditto for me.

44 mag. Garrett Hammerhead bullets. You can take anything in the northern hemisphere, and many things in the southern, if not all.

You know, I think he is no longer in business. I tried to get ahold of him last year and was unsuccessful. I may be wrong, and hope I am, but I was never able to connect with him.

I just ordered a box last week and got them yesterday. He's still there and going strong. Google Garrett ammo; you'll find them.

I have. I sent him a number of emails and he failed to reply.

Glad to hear is is still in business.

Hmm. Not sure what's up with the email. I orderd directly through his site and got a confirmation email right away, and then another when they shipped. Haven't tried to call though.

45colt!! I used a 44mag for over 10 years with few complaints,then I picked up a 45colt. For the handloader this is a great cartridge. I now have a few 45colts and before the year is out I will no longer own a .429magnum. Either will serve you well, but there is just something about that cartridge(45colt) that just speaks to my soul.

UPDATE!! It has come to mine and my local guns shop's attention that Ruger makes an overwhelming majoraty of the Bisley Blackhawks in 44 mag. After a three day search David (the owner/operator of my local gun shop) has come back with only one distributer that even has a Bisley in stock. Actually they had 5 and every one of them is a 44. That distributer was of course
Davidson's. No other distributer could even say when they were going to get any Bisleys but the general theme from them all was that when they get them they usually get them in 44 and dont see many 45 colts. Added to that is that they all have a pretty long back order list for the 45 colt Bisley so even if they did get one they would ship them out to dealers that are already on the list. First come first serve. Thats fair to all. So as much as I had my heart set on a 45 Bisley it looks like availability and an undeterminable waiting list have made the decision for me. The Bisey 44 will be here monday! (Im gonna love it!)

Tracker,

I sent a (new) Bisley 45 Colt to Rod for conversion to a 475. Thus, he will have a new bbl & cylinder. Might want to talk to him. Bet he might make you a deal.

That's okay!! They can be converted!

go on Gunbroker.com, they have a ton of them. Although I have an FFL since I'm a mfg I don't buy in volume so I don't get the big breaks. I just bought a brand new in the box never fired stainless Bisley Blackhawk in 45 for 470.00 from another dealer and that was hitting the buy now button. The gun is destined to become a 480 and then is going to Johannesburg SA to a British Zoologist working down there. I was going to convert a standard stainless blackhawk but word from midway is that Ruger has discontinued making extra stainless bisley grip frames although I have not confirmed it with Ruger. I just decided it was easier to buy a stainless bisley to convert. Take a look you may get a better price than your dealer would have given you depending on his transfer fees, just don't tell him what you paid for it.

Im honestly just as happy having a Bisley 44 as I would be having a Bisley 45. I was looking for a Bisley 44 when I bought my SBH stainless. Having the Bisley in 44 makes my mind up about what my next Ruger will be.......flattop 45 colt!!!! My deal with David at the gun shop was a trade. What I wanted was a Bisley and I have one on the way. I will buy the flattop 45 thru gunbroker in a couple weeks and have the 45 colt covered. I really appreciate all the input and have no fear I WILL have a 45 colt.

Why the 45 over the 44? I thought the 45 would be a slower round?

you'll never shoot anything that will walk away and say, whew, glad he was only shooting a 44mag, now had it been a 45 colt i'd be dead.

minute differences in size of a bullets diameter are typically only seen by those looking for them, or justifing an expensive purchase. i'd be just happy as punch shooting a 44 instead of a 45 colt or vice versa.

I'll remind you of that the next time you want to take your .454 on a big game hunt. LOL!

In fact, I'll make you a deal, I'll trade you a .44 Magnum for every one of your .454s (hey, gotta try!) -- starting with one of those tasty FA 83s!

haha, i've always said i use the 454 instead of the others b/c of my commitment to being good enough with the cartridge at extended ranges, in hunting situations at largely unknown distances which i'm good at judging but being off 25 yards or so is bad. that said, you can't have my FA.

however, i will be starting to experiment with more calibers and have what i consider to be a neat project under my belt right now.

So it has nothing to do with the fact the the 45 shoots a larger diameter bullet and penetrates deeper leaving more wound channel destruction

Yea I got ya

Well, only someone as arrogant as yourself jwp would pretend to know
My motives better than myself.

That said, only a wishful thinker would pretend to notice a bigger
Wound channel b/w a 45 colt vs a 44 mag. And it would take more naivety than I could possibly describe to think any difference would matter when killing something.

Bigger and significantly faster may very well produce a significant wound channel especially when dealing with expandables but there I go again using evil words like expandable and velocity.

This question does have a logical answer. "Yes"

They both have their places. I'm a 45 Colt guy after Linebaugh's readings. In fact both he and his son are both building guns for me.

Nothing wrong with the 44. I think the 44 special is pretty awesome. 250 Keith at 1100 fps. 45 Colt using 320gr LFN at 1100 is also impressive.

In the wheel guns, I like 1100 ish FPS. Adjust bore size and weight to take on larger targets.

Is it wishful thinking to expect a larger wound channel from a .475 over a .45 Colt or .454? If it is, perhaps there is no purpose at all for larger calibers. The difference in size is roughly the same moving from a .45 to a .475 as it is a .44 mag to a .45. Changed my mind about your .454, please send me your .475 instead -- since it's redundant. LOL!

Look, not trying to be combative here, but when I hear that a .45 doesn't make a discernably larger wound channel than a .44, I feel the compulsion to point out that the size difference is nearly on par as that of the .45 and .475 and yet people wanting a larger wound channel over a .45, move up to the .475 and no one seems to question their motive beyond that. So, no need to get defensive here, just discussing.

well, here goes, i don't feel the 475 does anything significantly better than my 454 depending on loads used. in my hands it is a fairly redundant caliber though a great one. there's a dogma around here that many don't question b/c they just don't wanna argue. you have to buck the dogma around here and talk about velocity, which despite what ya try and push, is important. may not be the most important thing, but it is a significant factor in all of this.

listen, the conventional wisdom is that a 45 colt is better for the handloader b/c it can be pushed to the same velocities as the 44 mag but with a larger bullet, fair enough, and that is correct, still don't think ya see a diff but whatever. but if VELOCITY didn't matter the standard pressure 45 colt rounds at about 800fps would be superior to full pressure 44 mag rounds but they clearly are not. the velocity matters as long as the bullet holds together and maintains it's integrity.

so ya got the issue of bigger versus faster, and then ya got bigger AND faster. in big bullets the 475 can be loaded be both bigger and faster but it's not shootable in any way to me so i don't care what it could be loaded to the same way i don't load 400 gr bullets to 1600fps in the 454 either. in standard factory loads i've never seen a significant difference in any way and if i did i'd have a house full of 475's, but then again, if i continued on that thinking i'd be jumping up to a 500 WE or 500 jrh, which would inevitably lead me to only want a 500 smith. so.........eventually ya ask what's enough? well if it kills an elephant then it sure as hell's enough for an elk or anything we all hunt on a regular basis.

this is not to bash anyone's favorite caliber but just to shed some light on my motives on what i shoot. it's about having the flattest trajectory in a normal size wheel gun i can, in a caliber i can kill any game on planet earth with. this is what i've come up with after shooting damn near as many 1000+ lb animals as anyone here but having no "friendships" with any gunsmiths or caliber inventors.

Everyone has their pet cartridges and that's the beauty of living in America. No government to dictate the calibers and how many handguns I can own... I have never gotten into the 45 Colt. I reload but also can't walk into just anyplace and pick up a box of 45 Colt hunting loads like I can for the .44 Magnum. I don't think any animal well shot with a .44 or .45 will ever have known the difference. I don't shoot the 45 Colt because I have a 454 and if I'm going for less power/recoil or whatever then I use the .44. If I want a bigger hole and a heavier bullet then I shoot the 475.

Not yet, at least -- LOL!

This is deep science here fellows, so try to stay with me. When I am in brown bear country, the .44 mag on my hip gives me more comfort than the .357, the .45 comforts me more than the .44, and with the .454 cylinder slid in the FA , I feel even better yet. But, with a Marlin .45-70 also on hand slid down in my saddle boot I can positivly whistle as I go. I don't understand all of the math, but the bigger the brute the bigger the bullit seems like pretty simple, common sence to me.

very true, hopefully not ever, but i feel the govt is gonna force some very tough decisions soon.

So.....I got the Bisley 44 monday morning. Right out of the box I tried the trigger. I dont have a trigger pull scale but what I can tell you is its HEAVY!! Not only that it has some grit and a lot of take up. Was really surprised at how crappy it was. I would put it at 6+lbs on a guess. So just for S&Gs I took it out to shoot it to see how it did. It took a truck load of focus on that trigger but it shoots pretty good. Doing the seated Skeeter Skelton I shot about a 3inch group at 50yrds with some 240gr Big Green factory ammo. Been wanting to burn it up for the brass anyway. For an iron sight gun Im impressed with it so far. Ill hit the bench tomorrow while its raining and load up some of my perfered pills and see how it does. May have to have something done about the trigger though.

Congratulations on the arrival! I would say that 3" at 50 yards with iron sights right out of the box is a great start, at least for me it would be. Especially with a stiff trigger.

I can look at the entrance hole and tell which were shot with a 45 or 44 as long as the two animals are together. It is demonstrable and probable that the 45/454 penetrates deeper and leaves a more destructive wound channel when like bullets are used. This is not opinion this is a fact.

The same goes for the 475's and 500's VS the 45/454's of the world.

The faster projectile and larger diameter of the 45/454 VS the 44 means more destructiveness, plain and simple.

Agreed......

Im hoping that with a lot of dry fire exercise and shooting the trigger will smooth out some.

As a side note I went back and read some of the posts that have been made. My request for advice was never meant to provoke anyone into insulting anyone else. My whole problem was solved when my dealer couldnt get the Bisley in anything but 44. Im happy with it. I am thankful for the help and advice. But some of you need to calm down. This is a forum for open discourse on the subject of handguns and their use in hunting. When we reach the point of throwing insults at eachother we are no longer helping anyone. As handgun hunters we should take enough pride in our sport to respect eachother and not degenerate a request for help into mud slinging gentlemen.

It will help. You might try a Wolff spring change as well, it really makes a difference.

The Hunter series revolvers are only available in .44 Magnum at this time. My Bisley Hunter had a terrible trigger out of the box, but 430man slicked it up and we installed a Wolf spring and now it is very nice. You will be happy with it, I am sure!

Ill try the Wolf srpings if it doesnt smooth out soon. Thanks. Whit I didnt get a Hunter. I got a standard blued Bisley. Honestly (and Im not poo pooing anyones choice here) I dont like the Hunter model Bisley or Standard grip. They dont point well for me and feel to front end heavy. I have shot them and they are fine shooters no doubt. They just dont feel right to me.

I'd call that good! The .44 will serve you very well.

Very well said!

No matter, same trigger!

The trigger will benifit from the wolf springs ,but will never smooth out to your satisfaction . The gritty feel will stay until you do ,or have done some polishing of the bearing surfaces. The trigger dosen't need to be super light but it does need to be smooth.It is time or money well spent.
Enjoy your .44!!!!!!!!!!!!!With the standard Blackhawk grip frame there are lots of aftermarket grips available if the standard grips don't suit you.

Tracker,

I am more particular than some with respect to the trigger pull on revolvers. I have been very satisfied with the work that Rod has done on a couple of mine. You might consider him (or another qualified individual) to do a good trigger job on your Ruger. I have never been satisfied with a Ruger revolver that has not had the trigger worked over.

I'm with you on the single actions, but I was pleasantly surprised with the SA trigger pull on my GP100 and SRH. My Bisley Hunter .41 had a poor trigger out of the box, but my Bisley 45LC must have been worked over by the previous owner 'cause it is excellent. For most folks just a spring change will make all the difference, but there is no substitute for an action job if you can afford one.

Im gonna give it a couple hundred rounds to smooth out. If that doesnt work I will contact Rod. It wont take me long to roll out and shoot that many thru the Bisley.
wtroper are you in Hereford, TX Deaf Smith county, boyhood home of Charles A. Skelton?

Rugers are pretty easy to disassembe if you have some skills at doing this kind of work. There is a method that can help with the trigger that does not require dis-assembly, but it has its limitations. A couple of variations:

1) Make sure the the trigger sear area is decently oiled. Pull the hammer back, and place forward pressure on the hammer while releasing the trigger. Do it a lot of times. I like to control the hammer fall, but the idea is to put increased pressure and the sear hammer hook juncture, to force the surfaces to smooth some.

2) Seen this variation in Cowboy action "tips", where you do as above, but fill the inside of your frame with toothpaste. The toothpaste acts as a mild abrasive, and repeated cycling will help with any burrs, and will generally polish.

Mostly ways to expedite the process of firing hundreds or thousands of rounds to get that "broke in" feeling. Never done 2, but I almost always do 1 with any gun that starts out gritty or hitchy.

Craig

Tracker,

Yup, I live here -- feedlot capital of the world. Almost anyone who has even driven through Deaf Smith County will testify about the odor from the feedlots. We just think that it smells like money. LOL

Sounds like the old "poor boys trigger job". One more step that will cut the trigger weight in half is to take off the grips, and lift one spring arm off the peg.

I have done this to 3 different Rugers, and they really improve the trigger.

Not as good as an actual trigger job, but miles above the factory trigger.

MN

wtroper that must be very cool to live in the home town of Mr. Skelton. As far as the feedlots go, well we all have to do what we have to do to make a living and someone has to have feedlots.

minnesotahunter...thats the first thing I did. Learned that old trick from a friend. It does help alot but this one is still pretty bad.

So for everyone who voted for the 45Colt I wanted everyone to know that I now own a Blackhawk 45 Colt/ACP flattop in 4 5/8" blued. Its a shooter in either round. Im lovin it. Thanks for all the help guys!!

Awesome score!! Congratulations!! Let's see some photos!

Way to go, you'll love it

I uploaded some photos in the member gallery of both the Bisley 44 I got in the original trade and the flattop 45. Hope you like them.

Nice toys ;-)

+ 1 -- Very nice!

if you shoot the same weight bullet, at the same speed, in a 44. and .45, the recoil will be less in the .45. No matter how whimpy, or overkill the load is, the larger diameter will always recoil less.

get a 44
most 45 colts require to many
mods. to get to shoot decent
current production 45's aren't
worth the time to get them to shoot

Really? I gotta disagree on that account.

Me too.

If you reload, 45 colt no question. If not ?????

I would LOVE to get my hands on a SBHH in 45... ... ... ...

Count me in as well

One more for the 45 Colt.


You load so you can take advantage of +P loads.


Snake