so technically if your scope hangs over your hammer so it would contact before the hammer you would be safe?... LOL I don't know, I think a lot of this is splitting hairs. 4 in the chamber is fine by me.

one thing about custom Rugers are that they don't say Freedom, WY on them like my 83 does... and I kinda like that

You do know who casts their frames for them, don't you?

actually, no I don't...

Ruger cast their frames. Ruger is a world leader in investment casting

elwood kirby:

Your post read; albeit spelling/english. However, the fact is (and proves out over decades): IF you handle firearms ENOUGH and ROUTINELY and for a LONG ENOUGH period of TIME, you WILL experience some personal errors. Whether or not they result in an AD, will be determined by luck, circumstances, and you.

Don't be too "COCKY." Or if you are, you better be PERFECT.

AGAIN: Main safety precaution: where you point that muzzle AT ALL TIMES.

it's like the loggers I've grown up with and around. The two most likely types to be hurt or killed are the beginners and the old timers. One is green and doesn't know anything and the other gets over confident because of their experience. All it takes is once and you or someone else may not live to regret it.

A couple of points:
An 83 needs to be carried with an empty chamber under the hammer. Anything else is plain foolishness and irresponsible. Stuff happens. The same is true of Colt and USFA 1873 pattern guns.

An 83 could indeed accomodate a transfer bar system. I closely examined and SHOT one, an experimental version modified by Bob, at the 2011 Shootists Holiday. No, they won't modify yours, as the cost would be prohibitive. Will there be such a model in the future? Who knows ... I doubt it.

The guy with the slicker "won" the lawsuit, with the responsibility for penalty / payment being assigned 50% to him and 50% to FA .. apparently enough to put FA into bankruptcy protection to forestall such payment. That wasn't the end of the world - they still make guns every day, and I'm glad of it.

Fa's are good; Rugers are good; custom Rugers can be good. Buy what you want. I have examples of all 3 and like them.

So I repeat my earlier question. What is the point of the hammer block system if it serves no purpose? I would think that FA would be better served from a libility risk to eliminate it all together if they feel that it is inadequate . The fact that it is there will lead some to use it. Of course you should have an empty chamber on a Colt or any of it's clones, but they don't have either a transfer bar or a hammer block.

I would think that FA would be better served to do away with their admitted defective hammer block and remove all questions about how it should be loaded if they are not going to put a transfer bar on them.

Maybe it comes down to the cost tooling, patents, or profit margins? Im sure launching FA's new single shot cost a bundle, and they won't be getting that money back. Those single shots went over like a lead ballon. I still think they would have been better off trying their hand at making a 5 shot double action to compete with Ruger's Redhawk.
I have not made it the range with my new 83 yet, however I have been fondaling it on a regular basis. There are a couple of things I like about it that my Rugers lack: 5 shot cylinder; best grip I have ever felt; super solid lockup, and I much prefer FA sights and ease of mounting various optic bases. This being said, I wouldn't sell 2 or 3 of my custom Ruger to buy another FA. The two revolvers look similar, are made for similar tasks, but I still think its compairing apples to oranges.

Hank, I think there's a difference between "defective" and can be broken. The combination of the hammer block and the FA warning to not load a full cylinder are enough of a CYA legally. To remove the hammer block and not have the warning...that would be foolish. People ignore the warning as it is...at least the block may prevent some from accident.

By the way, I load four in all of my 83's. And it's so habitual, I do it in my 97's.

The 83 utilizes a piece of 1/8inch solid steel bar stock that comes up between the hammer and frame when on safety (first hammer click)...this is not a hammer notch system like the old Rugers and 73 style Colts, that can be broken by dropping or hitting the hammer. You could beat the FA83's hammer with a framing hammer and not get it to fire...and there is just no way you can drop it far enough to flatten the 1/8" bar stock, no way a 3 ,5 or even 10ft drop is going to do.

The problem is that you have to "Set" the safey and it is not automatic like the Ruger. Those guys that drop them 3ft and have them fire Did Not have the 83 on saftey...

The senerio that can cause one to AD is...if a piece of brush catches and pulls the hammer back and another piece of brush pulls the trigger it can fire the weapon...But wait, this senerio will also override the Rugers transfer bar system won't it.

The 83 is safe but not idiot proof......YOU NEED TO ENGAGE THE SAFETY BAR... The new Ruger is idiot proof becuse the bar sets automatically.

The 83 is NO old colt style that can be broken. The guys that only load 4 seem to always have to peep around the end of the cylinder to make sure the empty chamber is in the right place..so pointing the gun, that you just loaded, at your head doesn't sound too safe to me. ANd if you don't look, then you are reliying on your best guesstimate that you have successsfully found the empty chamber.

. The FA83 safety system is as robust as the rest of the gun...and Safe as a Ruger transfer bar...but you have to set it.

I am sorry but you are wrong the hammer block can and has been broken when the gun has fallen on it and the gun has accidentaly fired.

I know one guy that this happened ot when he was running to get in postion and the gun fell from his shoulder holster on to rocks and discharged. Yes the hammer block was in use at the time

So how can you break the bar?? Not really anything to break?? It is more like a penny on the railroad track...nothing to break, it just needs to be smashed flat if the hammer is to reach the firing pin..

How do you know for sure the guy had his block engaged??

I am not trying to mess with you here...just want to learn as much from the facts as I can....so many BS statements on the net is is hard to wade through them all..

When I got my first 83, I tore it apart to see how it was made. After seeing how it was made, I never questioned its' safety. That was 23 years ago. Several 83's later I am still failing to see how the safety can be broken.

Please share what you know...did the end break off the bar?? (Thinking out loud here) but even if the bar broke in half the bar would still be there between the fame and hammer.

And just how did you confirm that after the fact? Was something broken and if so what?

I got my info from one of the top pistol smiths and revolver builders in the world. Yes he examined them. I defer to his expertise and I will go with his word

The term "automatic safety" is used all the time ...the fa 83 is completely safe...but the problem is the safety is not automatic.

Just like everything else we seem to see an increase in..."someone else needs to do it for us" "Govt save and protect use from ourselves"......It is not my fault, The "gun" blew my leg off, killed him etc...the bottle got me drunk, etc..lol

There is some scarey stuff out there guys...here is just one. This will make you sick. http://www.legalshowtime.com/video/227/K...aliber-Revolver

I am not trying to bash the FA-83 as I own 7 or 8 of them and like them and intend to keep them, but let's call a spade a spade

Of course putting an empty chamber up the hammer is a long way from being "automatic".

Hank,

My initial post on clarifying the hammer block was a bit along your lines of thinking, I think. Rather than me tell anyone how they should handle their firearm, I was trying to clarify that when owning a firearm, it is your job to truely understand how it works, in all detail.

Without getting into the weeds of legality here, I would only ask. Does anyone here hunt with an older levergun or break open shotgun? How does one carry one of these, always chamber empty, always with the gun action broken open (single shot). No one here hunts with an older weapon with a dedicated half cock notch as designed by the maker? Not talking about a Colt with the hammer resting on a primer. Sure a FA with an empty under the chamber is drop proof. But as posted above, what about brush snagging the hammer and drawing it back?

In the scenario that JP posted about the gun falling from a holster while running and discharging, I can think of a lot of pistols and rifles where this could happen. I would say this was not a design problem with the gun as much as it was a user gun handling error. It's pretty easy to fathom a scenario that will discharge any loaded firearm unintentionally. So I still say undersatnd the entire workings of your partucular gun and act accordingly for your safety and those around you.

Carrying a loaded firearm is an ongoing active process, not "follow the instruction manual to the penny and assume all will be well so I can now do stupid things".

Craig

Craig, I think this is well stated. You simply cannot prevent human error, and you certainly don't have to be a "clutz" for an accident to happen.

Quote: " in my unasked opionon,you got to be a clutz to drop or discharge your gun by accident"

That is a foolish statement.

Bottom line as always is handle firearms carefully and respectfully, be attentive, and where that muzzle is pointed.

I have carried my 83 with an empty chamber under the hammer. Now I may carry it fully loaded.

Good post and I agree with a lot of what you posted, but to term something safe 100% of the hazards must be removed and the transfer bar system does this.

I only posted the facts so that everyone can process the info and proceed as thy deem appropriate. When hunting free ranging animals in rough terrain it is not unusual to have to run to get in position to have a shot at animal. I have also had a revolver fall from my shoulder holster in rough terrain, a Ruger Bisley in 45 Colt

As Forrest Gump so eloquently stated "sh!t happens"

Darn, I thought I posted this on the wrong thread 20min ago... LOL

I am not trying to be a smart butt, however, the gent in video link stated that it wasn’t his gun, there was only one handgun hunter in the group (and he wasn’t that person) and he wasn’t familiar with the firearm.

So being the “safety advocate” he is claiming to be, those comments are very hypocritical IMHO. Also, if he was carrying the said firearm when it went off, he would have had to have the muzzle resting on his own body. Or did anyone else catch that?

I am not trying to play devils advocate, however, firearms are generous and merit respect. If you don’t respect them YOU will get hurt. That simple…

All right, I have just ordered a new holster with a flap (to avoid hammer snags). Would anybody be interested in going in on a "group buy" for Bowen Lanyard Rings (dropping gun on rocks)?
There is an alternative that no one has mentioned: We carry on an empty chamber, and leave the following chamber empty as well. Unless the brush grabs your hammer twice, or your dropped gun bounces down a clift repeatingly rotating your cylinder, you should survive.
Back to Whit's senario, ... 3 dead bears, and 2 crawl away with limps & black eyes. What do you think?

Ok so someone is running or whatever and the gun isn't strapped in. That someone has a round under the hammer (who knows what position the hammer is in). They are not running with one hand on the gun to prevent it from flopping out of the holster possibly with no retention strap in the first place (all FA holsters have a retention strap). Gee how could there be any possibility for dropping a gun. I'm surprised they didn't also blame the rock that the hammer hit and sue the landowner for having rocks on his property? They could also sue the maker of the slicker for producing a product that can inadvertently cock and fire a gun when removed, same is true for bushes that can cock a gun and pull the trigger.

The FA owners manual clearly states don't carry 5 rounds loaded.

BAZINGA! you got me there, I didn't know that!

I have a Ruger too and I really like it also. That is my disclaimer LOL

JWP,

And your post is exactly what we need in thread like this, all of the facts to help folks make a decision for themselves. I actually checked the instruction manual for a couple of other hand guns I own and both state specifically not to load the gun until shooting is imminent. If I were to follow the rules to the letter, I would not be able to carry a gun for self-defense ;^) So we all violate the manuals, but pretty much have to agree the manual should just be a starting point for the decision.

Gregg, you have probably surmised that I do carry mine with 5 in the holes, sometimes. My gun is carried in a SD Myers custom holster that fits the gun so snug, the cylinder cannot rotate. and it has a thumb break that holds the hammer tight. But, I also hunt alone and try to exercise common sense. And, I am not opposed to changing my carry to accomodate the situation. That is what I was trying to say about an active process. I hunt with my leveractions with the the chamber loaded, in half cock. But if not alone, I adjust and at times will empty the chamber. If on a narrow trail with others, not in the front, shuck out the shell.

Gary, I actually had my FA 83 for quite a while before I figured out how it actually works. I felt really dumb for that, and I had read the instruction manual. But I had not really taken the time to understand. I'll admit to being guilty of skimming over the safety section, just as I do with a lot of pistols. I found quite a few threads on various forum about how to safely carry a 83, but none were as reasonable as we are here. I agree 100%, the FA manual says 4, period. To not do so one had better understand and be responsible about it. Even if you shoot your own bloody leg off...

Craig

JWP said it the way it is.
Freedom instructions for both the 83 and 97 has very large printing that states NO ROUND UNDER THE HAMMER but the entire truth is, the only way to be 100% safe is to never load the gun.
Internal parts are too complicated and they wear out. I seen too many where you could push the hammer and see the pin come out. I made new internal parts. The transfer bar on them is not safe.
Setting the hammer on safe is the same as a Colt and the notch or trigger can break. The hammer block can fail to rise to block the hammer. But you forget as you pull the hammer to the safety notch, the bar drops a little. The farther back the hammer, the lower the bar.
Why did Freedom make a hammer block and a transfer bar system that they, themselves do not trust? The cost to make their internal parts are half the cost of the gun just to save paying royalties to Ruger for the best system ever.
Just how many of you Freedom owners have taken your gun apart?
Wear Depends to keep from wetting yourself.
Funny that in the history of the S&W hammer block, there has never been a failure and the same with the Ruger transfer bar. You MUST pull the trigger. I find that the way to shoot a gun.

There have been some good points made and I feel that common sense applies here. There is NO WAY that I would hunt dangerous game with my Freedom Arms revolvers without five cartridges in the cylinder. I think that the remote chance of an accidental discharge is far outweighed by the very real possibility of needing 5 shots (or more) in a hurry when hunting large, dangerous game. Even with well-placed shots, large animals take awhile to realize they are dead and a lot can happen between that first shot and the death of the animal.

If I'm hunting non-dangerous game, well 4 in the cylinder absolutely makes sense. Just my .02...

Such a great quote I stole it from the FA Lawsuit to post over here...

Thanks, TC. Spend enough time in the woods, and sooner or later everyone is going to have one of those moments where we either do something stupid, or about to do such. It is that exact moment that is the hardest to recognize, but requires that we do.

Craig

I agree with this completely.

I have the answer to FA's problem. They make enough 83's to give one to every lawyer in America, then you put in the manual to carry with all 5 loaded and hammer at full cock then they get to on a mule ride in rough country. Eventually FA's and Americas problems will be solved.

Oh man, Craig, you are starting to sound like my good buddy wa...
Oh... I won't finish...don't want to sound ...

Haha! Problem solved!

If your FA83 has a scope, theres no way dropping it can impact the hammer. I carry one everywhere in a bandoleer. on quads, horses, in and out of boats, etc

Greg,

Now that I am recently divorced, and about to turn 50, I have those "is this gonna leave a mark" moments more frequently. No one around to haul my dumb you know what to the emergency room ;^) And it's not really different than hunting remote areas alone, even if you have buddies on the hunt. Stupid move with the gun, your foot or your head and you might end up using that little fee on your license for search and rescue ;^) I figure by now, I have several dollars in credits. Should be enough for perhaps an aerial ride, ya think? At least I do not have to worry about where my horse is about to step......

Craig

Craig,

Just wait another 20 yrs. It does not get better.

Anything can happen. It's less likely but I wouldn't want to bet anything significant on that assertion.

Actually Craig and I have had some interesting conversations and it's safe to say we are on the same page

Hell, we are on the same book, not just a page. LOL!