Hey guys. Sorry for all the encore related threads I've posted lately, but I've been doing my research elsewhere on the net and can't find anything, so I resort to you guys. This question is more out of curiosity than anything else. I know it won't matter when the lead hits the hide, but I'm just curious.

Here's my next question...

Let's say someone has a barrel on an Encore that is 12" long. How long, or short, of a barrel would you have to have on a revolver to get the same velocity and pressure? I don't know if the caliber matters, but lets say in this instance it is the 460 smith and wesson since that is the one I will be getting.

The revolver has a cylinder, and will lose some pressure because of the cylinder gap (thanks for the explanation in a PM Wapitirod). The Encore is enclosed, and, I would think, would lose considerably less pressure.

See where my curiosity comes from??

There is not that much loss with the cylinder gap. Some revolvers actually had a higher velocity then a single shot with the same barrel length. Barrel length will be more important.
The larger the case and the more powder, the gun should have a longer barrel.

So you're saying the barrel on my 460 should be 4 feet long? And Rod's 458 Lott should be about 6 feet??

Seriously though, thanks for the reply. Certainly makes sense!

R.T. get a 15" MGM barrel, the recoil is not as bad as you think.

Thanks racksmasher. Why the 15? Does the 12 not cut it? What did you gain with the 15? This is the kinda stuff I'm lookin for!!! Thank you!!!

I'm not worried about the recoil, just want to get the most proficiency out of it as I can.

It does, bigger holes are more efficient than small ones. With the case capacity of the 460 you likely wouldn't reach maximum efficiency in a typical rifle length barrel, even with the big hole. A 15 will be better than a 12, for velocity and felt recoil, but 15's can be a pain in the field, and I will give up some FPS for the better handling of the shorter tube.

Even from a 10 you wouldn't be lacking with the 460, and it will handle nicely.

Thanks S4. I was meaning I didn't know if the caliber mattered in the difference of the encore vs. revolver concerning the whole pressure difference issue. And I've been thinkin about dropping down to a 10 as well. Did you have a break on your 10" and if so, was it worth doing? By that, I mean a short barrel on a 460 is essentially a muzzle break by default isn't it, at least concerning recoil? Granted, a 10" barrel isn't exactly short, but a break on a 10 would make it an 8 in reality wouldn't it? And I would think ya lose some of the effect of the 460 when you get down to 8" barrels. Like you said, the powder isn't being used to its full capacity in most barrels anyway, so shorter barrels would automaticaly take away some of the potential recoil, and the break would make the shorter barrels even more inefficient. Is it possible to use some sort of powder that burns super fast, or I suppose that increases the pressure to quickly.

Maybe my reasoning is just way off here. Thanks for whatever help you can give me. I don't want to handicap the 460 very much, but I don't want to lug around a telephone pole length barrel either. But then again, a 15" barrel in an encore is probably going to be shorter on the overall length when compared to the 12" S&W revolver simply because of the construction differences between the two.

I'm sure it will be a lot easier to find a holster for this encore rather than that 460 12" revolver from S&W that could double as an anchor! Sure enjoyed it though.

just as a noteI have to disagree with you 430. I've personally seen velocity variations with same load and identical guns except for cylinder gap. Any escape route the gas has causes a drop in pressure behind the bullet in the barrel therefore reducing velocity. A closed breech gun has nowhere for the gas to go except out the barrel unless the chamber is bad enough for it to blow back.

That would be correct. If I were in your shoes I would lean towards a 12" barrel with a good brake. You would excede the performance of the wheelguns and still have a pretty handy package.

I have to agree w/ Rod. I have never heard of a revolver giving better velocity with the same barrel length and round than a single shot. If you don't think much is lost in the barrel/cylinder gap of a revolver, go out wearing a pair of shorts, sit down, rest the barrel of the revolver between your knees w/ the front of the cylinder against your knees and pull the trigger. You will burn your skin good from that "little" bit of exchange. Pressure is lost there. This won't happen w/ a single shot. This may not be significant to some, but it certainly doesn't help ballistics.

R.T. ----I bought a 15" full 1" bull barrel from MGM, there is no brake on it. I wanted some weight on the Encore to keep the recoil down some, I carry it in a bandolier holster, the gun recoils like my 30-06 Encore. I also have a Performance center X frame in 460 with a 12" barrel, they both are loud, I do not wear ear protection when I hunt, recoil from the Encore is considerably more than the revolver.

"Typical" brakes add to the length, not take away from it.

Revolver has 5 or 6 shots and the Encore has 1?

It only takes one ;-)

especially when your like me and using light artillery.

Per critter!

But doesn't your "Performance center X frame" have a brake on it?

There is no brake on the 12" XVR Hunter from Smith and Wesson. Its the same gun I used to have.

The revolver shoots the heavy bullets better. Heavy bullets are better for stopping big game.

What do you mean by that frank? Ya got me curious...

Seems to me like a bit more pressure would serve the heavy bullets a little better.

It seems to me the revolver grip design handles recoil better so you more easily shoot heavy flat nosed bullets. Am I mistaken? It seems to me the Encore/contender type is better suited for bottleneck cartridges. Adding brakes and wearing thick gloves make for exceptions? No?

Oh I see what ya mean. I can't really answer that yet. I haven't ever fired an encore bigger than a .44, and it was a wuss. The one I ordered will wear a 460 barrel in a yet undetermined length. I refuse to put a break on it, and I aint wearing no gloves! But other than that, yeah, I can see your point.

I'm hoping that the Encore will give even better performance out of the 460 cartridge than the revolver did. By that, I mean I think there is a lot of "wasted potential" in a revolver's cylinder compared to an enclosed chamber (I have talked with Wapitirod a little about this subject). I may be completely wrong, but I intend to find out! I guess its the physics part of me that is curious.

I'm not worried about the recoil -- that's most of the fun to me! That, and seeing stuff get vaporized. The 460, in my opinion, is the entry level when it comes to big bores. That is why I chose to hunt big game with it. I KNOW I'm not undergunned, I have full confidence in it, and it gets the job done while still leaving meat on the bones to be put in the freezer. Everything else from there on up is just fun, or is for hunting Africa type big game. I'm sure I'll hunt with some other large bores at some time, but for now, I'll take the 460 every time. Unless of course I'm hunting those crazy woodchucks that require the 458 Lott or higher to avoid lead bouncing off them!

the 460 in an encore and a revolver will not even compare at all. the encore will give extreme(i'll call it) performance. i forget which bullet weight, but 2600-2700fps out of the encore a buddy on specialty pistols website has. maybe i'm wrong(don't have one)....but i don't think the revolver would/could get anywhere close performance wise with any bullet weight.
if you want a hoss cat....i think you found one.

Gregg, no brake on the P.C. gun, the Encore weighs 6 pounds and the P.C. gun is 5 pounds, that one I carry on a sling.

Raptor you could go this way and rebarrel it if it isn't long enough.

http://www.armslist.com/posts/359034/win...r-460-s-w--new-

OK, I am mistaken.

OK!

Another point about the Encore v. Revolver is that you will have more flexibity about how you seat you bullets and the crimp, or lack thereof. If the barrel is not too short, you could gain velocity by seating a little longer if the throat will allow, to perhaps use a slower powder. Or more of the usual ;^)

Some powders might like the crimp for consistent ignition, but I would not be so bold as to say all would need the super mega mondo crimp that many 460 users probably use. I do know when you set up your seating/crimping die, you are probably gonna have one of those "well, this is different, do I need a crimp" moments. Have fun s'perimenting.....

Craig

I use the same handload for both guns, same COL, crimp.

That is normally true. Now I have not tested but read some very interesting things. Some revolvers really did have more velocity. But those that were slower were not very much slower. At least not enough to hold your nose at a revolver.
I am not a fan of high velocity anyway and accuracy is 100X more important to me for hunting.
Velocity is fine for a singe shot because it is a good platform for long range hunting from sticks or a rest. But the S&W .460 was also designed for long ranges with a lighter boolit at high velocity.
The question was about matching velocities and I feel it is not important. The difference in drop at 200 yards between the revolver and single shot could probably be measured with your thumb.

Racksmasher and 430man -- What forend did you put on your encore to allow the use of the 460 bull barrel? MGM told me that the full 1" bull barrel won't fit a normal forend.

Not at all. Both types of gun will gain velocity as the barrel gets longer until you reach the point it is too long and powder is consumed, then the bullet will slow down. But neither gun needs a barrel so long it is 100% efficient.
If you have a 15" TC and a 12" S&W, the difference is so little you will never tell in the field. To tell the truth I would go with a 12" TC, larger is a rifle without a butt stock.
I have to look at the S&W because I believe it has a gain twist so if you shorten too much you will lose spin. You can go to 6" and still kill game but your range will be shortened. Accuracy might get worse because of twist rate. This is not true with the TC.
You can get higher velocity from the TC only with seating depth, bullet choice, barrel length, etc. Loss from the gap of the revolver should not turn you away, it is not huge. A TC compared to the revolver with the same barrel length and load will both do the job.
Take both guns with a good scope and shoot 200 yards. Drop between them should be no concern, after all, a click or two on the scope will put you on target and you might not need it.
If you think higher velocity will kill better, you might be mistaken because it is bullet work that kills, not how fast it goes but how they work at the velocity you shoot them.

I had Contenders and they did make forearms to fit different barrels. Wood is easy to hog out to fit. Check E. Arthur Brown or TC.
Hunting for me today is 90% revolvers. ML's and archery too. Understand my ranges are not much more then 100 yards. If I had to shoot farther, I would go to the Encore or long range revolver. Use what you have to depending on where you hunt.

Thanks 430man for the comments in the last two posts.

I understand about bullets doin the work. I'm not one that thinks velocity is what does the killin. However, I like the ability of putting the crosshairs on my target, and knowing that with a zero of 125 yards, my POI isn't going to be off by much more than a very few inches, even at 200 yards with the 460. Most of my hunting is done at 150 yards or less, but there is the opportunity now and then for 200 or better. In my research, the 460 was the only one capable of doing this shot without throwing a rainbow. When I had the 12" Smith, I was able to hit milk jugs at 200 yards easily, and I am more than comfortable with hunting at that range with that ability. There are people here that will agree that the 460 is capable of well over 200 yards, but I myself am not ready for that kind of shot... yet.

I've had the 460 S&W revolver, and loved it. But I have also been interested in the Encore Pro Hunter, and since it is about a third cheaper, I thought I'd give it a shot. From that platform, I can get different barrels down the road much cheaper than I can a new revolver. And, honesty, I just wanted to try something different. My question about the velocity difference and pressure difference wasn't going to make up my mind on revolver or encore, it was already made up to go with the encore. It was really just more of a curiosity question. And no, I wasn't serious about the 4' and 6' long barrels. But I do think it would be fun to find out exactly how long of a barrel gives the best performance from those calibers now that ya mention it!

I still find it interesting when reading what you and others have said. Please don't take that statement wrong for I will be the first to admit that you most likely know more about handguns than I do. I am not about to say one person is wrong or right, I just think it is an interesting topic. I'd LOVE to have both guns side by side and perform the test! :-)

We have deer in the yard every day. Had a doe with 3 spotted fawns the other day. I take my little dogs out and deer ignore them and me. Had them walk towards us before moving into the woods. My dogs are used to them and just sit and watch or go the other way to pee. Deer at 20 yards or less from us is common. I just can not hunt my woods much so I go down the road. I love the animals and they are welcome in my yard. We do have too many and they must be controlled for their health but it is hard to kill one of these. I hunt less and less in my woods. I shoot 6 to 7 deer a season and I do not need to shoot those that come in my yard.
Now you fellas that have a harder time and find a deer hard to find, do what you can. Some of you need to get picked for a hunt. Some can only shoot one animal and play Holy heck to find one. I do truly understand.
I have lowered my bow or holstered my revolver when I did not want to kill one. Had 17 or more deer under me feeding and bumping my bow.
Yet I do enough to understand bullets/boolits and arrows. Those that shoot one deer a season or one every few years can not have the experience to tell you what is best.
To shoot a buffalo or a caribou and tell you what is best is a stretch, they need to shoot hundreds like I have shot deer. A few pigs is the same. With each animal you need to learn something about the gun and bullet/boolit performance.
Understand that the last deer that was DRT has no meaning unless the last 200 were DRT shot from any angle with any kind of bone hits.
I have shot many hundreds of deer with everything imaginable with very, very few DRT stuff. Do not believe that stuff, it is CNS hits ONLY and nobody can do it all the time. A heart shot deer can go 100 yards.
Here we come to a problem with long range. First, after the shot you need to go EXACTLY to the spot the animal was. Not 10 yards different--EXACT! Now find blood and trail. ONLY A CNS HIT WITH A DROPPED ANIMAL IS EASY or a spotter that watches in open country. Do you have a spotter? Are you hunting with cover close for the animal? Can you have someone watch as the animal goes a mile or is it gone with one leap?

No offense or anger is intended in this post, but I think most of us know how to hunt, and what happens during that time. I've been doing it for thirty years now. It may not be as much as most of you, but I've done enough hunting in those thirty years to know how to track an animal.

I've bow hunted most of my life, and therefore have followed a LOT of blood trails. I know they can disappear. But if a person relies only on a blood trail, their tracking skills are pretty limited in my opinion. I took 7 big game animals with a bow before I ever picked up a rifle. Took a deer and an elk within thirty minutes of each other with that rifle during the combined third season in Colorado, and decided that was to easy. Went back to bow hunting for several years, got burned out, and wanted to try something different. That's what got me to handguns the last few years, and I love it.

I think it is pretty unfair to assume I think every animal shot just drops in place, or that I don't know how to track an animal. I can track an animal pretty darn well without blood. Try running a trap line for even just one season and see how well your tracking skills get. If a person doesn't have good tracking skills, they will be setting worthless sets.

I don't believe this sport is about racking up as many kills as possible, and I'm not about to deny most of you have taken more game animals with a handgun or rifle than I have. But I'd be careful in assuming that I can't hunt.

RT, I don’t think TC ever made a bull forend for the Encore. I have had several customs, but never a factory unless it was modified.

I also think Rod has a good assessment of Revolver vs Encore comparison.

There are a lot of variables with both powders and bullet weight selection that can make a huge difference in performance in the two platforms…

exactly!!....track or shoot an animal....or choose what to use when n where. don't assume being old and wise, having big $ for fancy hunts, or killing twice as many animals makes one more deserving of respect or anything else. 30+ yrs of hunting and everyone in your neighborhood doing the same adds up to a lot.

I agree with you Kyode. I truly believe that ANYONE who has taken even one big game animal deserves respect. It is not an easy task, and IF it is accomplished, there is a LOT that has gone into it.

Exactly. But you will have trouble here. If no blood because a boolit did not exit, you will not track a single deer because trails are solid tracks from many, many deer. Hundreds of trails all over the place. Trails that split, split again and again.
ONLY BLOOD LEAVES A TRAIL for the animal you shot so what would you do if you don't find any? Hard ground, rock, high grass, weeds, dry leaves and trails full of tracks. Not a single person here including me can find a deer without blood.
I have tracked half the night with a Coleman lantern,ran out of blood, had to go back in the morning and guess how I found the deer? CROWS found it. I went to the crows.