I had meant to post this a couple months ago.

This is a 400 grain Hornady XTP recovered from my Mule Deer I killed with my Dixie Firearms .475 Linebaugh last November. I know that these XTP's aren't recovered that often so I wanted to share. It weighs 386 grains and was recovered under the hide on the off shoulder from a quartering away shot while he was on the move.

I had about the same expansion I am guessing from a .430 240 gr XTP on the deer I shot this year. It was only about 65 yds and coming out of the barrel at 1500+ fps it just drilled its way through 2 ribs and never did open up.

I knew there was a reason why I bought so many 400gr. xtp's for my 475. I look forward to giving her a shot now. They held together alot better then the 250gr xtp did when shot out of my SRH..

How fast are you running that load?

They do hold up, but often don't expand much if any.

S4s4u, I am not a chronograph guy; although I used to be to a point where I think I burned myself out on it. I am loading the 400 XTP with 25.5 grains of H-110 out of a 5 1/4 inch barrel. This load has now killed three mule deer bucks and two bull elk in two years (seasons) and I see no reason to change a thing

That is the standard load I use and give to my clients for their guns as it has consistently been accurate in every 475 I've tried it in. That load out of my 6" is going 1350 which as you can see by Greggs record with his and the bison Ed shot is more than adequate for big animals. It's also basicly a twin to the factory Hornady ammo. I've pushed it harder but found the gains in velocity weren't worth the extra recoil or abuse to the gun. I also started running into high pressure signs not much over that.

Man, that is NOT how I pictured an xtp to perform. That basically looks like a copper hard cast bullet!

This gives me concern with my 45 colt shooting the 250gr xtp.

Maybe I was just expecting more? Is this how that bullet is designed to perform? If so, I think I may be using the wrong bullet for what I want to do.

I'm running the same load out of my 7 1/2" FA's and mine are running 1335 fps.

Gregg it doesn't look like it opened up to much, so was wondering if you could give us some details on what kind of damage it did on the deer, and also do you think it would open up a little more on a heavier animal like Elk or Moose?

RT the 250gr. xtp is alot softer bullet you shouldn't have any problems with it in your colt.

The 400 grain .475" XTP is actually an XTP MAG. Big difference in construction.

yeah the 250 will open up just fine on deer at 45LC velocities, the mag is designed for tougher animals and/or higher velocities.

Yup, but without a good nose profile. Penetration doesn't seem to have been great either judging by the fact that the bullet was recovered.

That was my thought.

Ok, didn't realize the bullet being talked about was a MAG. Makes me feel better about my bullet choice for the Colt!

Thanks!!!

The buck was following a hot doe track through some fairly heavy black timber; I intercepted him but couldn't get a shot. I circled and tried to get ahead of him but instead ending up flanking him. I waited till he was in the clear and shot off-handed. The bullet entered behind his last rib and shattered the off-shoulder. The bullet stopped just under the hide.

Hitting heavier bone on a bigger animal may or may not cause it to open up more. I can't say for sure; on the two bull elk I have killed with that bullet they exited.

RT, you might also try the Speer 260 HP and compare them shooting into milk jugs and wet newspaper.

Thanks Gregg for the info. Was wondering what slowed that bullet down enough to find it still in the deer. I'm a little surprised it still didn't pass through thou.

pass throughs are subjective, I've seen some weird stuff with identical bullets so you really can't judge them all the same. I don't know if a hard cast or solid would have even come out on that particular shot. There are way too many variables that can affect penetration. I've had (on the same animal) a round go through the rear hip of a 700# bull and end up in the front of the chest cavity and the finish shot went through two ribs and stuck in the off shoulder. Both shots were at roughly the same range with the same gun and loads. the first one went through the hip length wise so it had gone through over 6" of bone and continued through the guts and one lung. The second had a third that distance and half as much bone to go through but still didn't make it out.

I would call that bullet a failure. It failed to open, and it failed to exit despite not opening. However, it killed the animal graveyard dead, so how can we call it a failure?? What a tangled web we weave.........

Sorry! i just cant help myself....why not just use cast. ha ha i did say i was sorry

I've killed 3 deer with a 375 gr. cast performance bullet out of a 480 Ruger SRH. 2 of the 3 died quickly with quite a bit of blood lost and the third was shot broad side at about 25 yards ran approx 30 yards and was still on his feet when I got up to him. I finished him off with a head shot. The first shot was a passed through, but no blood coming out of either hole. I have no idea how long it would have taken for him to die had i not put a finisher round in him. So as far as cast and jacket go, I've had good and not so good performance from both. From now on with cast the shots will be going into the front shoulder.

You don't have to worry about your 250gr. XTP not opening up. I have never had any problem with this bullet opening.

I can think of many reasons, but we best let this thread stay on course ;-)

I would agree. Somewhere in the archives here somebody said something about each bullet is its' own case?? (or sumpin' like that...)

Like Rod said: I (we) "have seen bullets do some strange things."

And none based on logic, only emotion.......LOL! Sorry, couldn't resist, Rod!

I don't emote, brother ;-)

There are so many variables that come into play, you can't really judge this and you all know that. I bet if you looked at the video from the other side, the hide probably stretched 2 feet out and came back. I've seen it on deer and in videos of African game even. I've had two CAST do the same thing, both were cast from LBT molds so there is no "it was a bad cast bullet" thing. Sometimes, strange things happen. I've had a 260 grain slug stop in a deer that weighed 110 pounds on a broadside shot. I put it dead through the center of the shoulder at 110 yards at a muzzle velocity of 1890 fps from my FA 454. The hide was just hanging loose on other side. She never ran but that is the ONLY 454 slug I've ever recovered, cast or jacketed. Things just happen. I just find it odd that Gregg's picture has been posted in numerous other sites today and used as an example of bullet failure. Just tacky. He was just trying to show a bullet he recovered.

Congrats on the mulie Gregg. The XTP mags are just tough bullets

And by posting it, it was open to scrutiny and discussion. Of course there are a multitude of factors that come into play, but you cannot ignore the fact that this bullet didn't expand and it was recovered, so it didn't exit. I feel it is a failure as such. However, as I pointed out above, it would be hard convincing a jury that the bullet failed as it was recovered from a dead mulie. So, you can't really say it failed in the grand scheme of things, just that it failed to do what it was designed to do and that was to expand. Granted, that doesn't mean this is the norm, but I have used XTPs in various calibers and weights and this is not that uncommon. They are really tough and a good choice when velocities are high.

Stuff does happen to any and every type of bullet, no doubt. But consistency is a really important issue to me when I hunt, and even though you cannot ever have any product that is 100% infallible, I try to stack the deck in my favor whenever possible.

Just pulling your chain, Rod!

Gregg's bullet from that mulie is an example of why we must be careful in shaping our opinions based upon our own experiences. Few of us ever shoot enough animals with a particular load and bullet to have a substantial basis for an opinion on its performance. As has been pointed out previously, in any one situation unexplainable things happen.

Specific exceptions to the "limited experience" above exist. I, for one, listen carefully to those who have used a particular projectile on many animals. We are fortunate to have a couple of members on this forum who are in that category.

Rapper, The 45 cal. 250gr XTP you use in your Colt will have a more mushroom shape expansion if you should recover one. I`ve used that bullet in my 454 along with the double cannalure 300gr XTP to take a number of animals in the past. I`ll try and post some photos. James

Gregg, Here is a recovered 475cal 400gr XTP bullet from their factory ammo that was found on the off side of a water buff.Lost 103.5grs weighing 296.5grs and lost jacket. One stop shot...

describing a bullet failure is a funny thing, i shot an oryx with a 420gr hardcast, complete penetration, i put the animal down later with another shot. both were through the vitals, both bullets evidently did their job. 2nd shot was approximately 6 miles from the first. had i found an xtp in the animal that looked just like greg's i would've found it hard to call it a failure, though i felt like the oryx hunt recently wasn't a failure, it sure didn't make me feel like i used the right bullet. i've also seen some very slo mo camera footage on the offside of animals shot and it's amazing how far that hide will stretch and hold a bullet. i've shot the same size oryx with a number of different bullets and recovered a few expandables up in the hide. the animals were recovered within 60 yards of where they were shot. not a failure imho.

Gosh, we over analyze everything here don't we... I LOVE IT! haha.

Interesting, thanks for sharing Gregg, and that is a beautiful buck.

I like reading through all the posts and seeing every bodies take on this stuff.

I at first also thought, huh, a 400gr 475 not passing through a deer? but like everyone said, weirder things have happened and we all know the end result

I have also always liked the 250gr. xtp. Very accurate, and deadly. I think I stated before in this post that the only thing with the bullet is that it sepirated from the jacket upon hard impacts. Just like your 400gr. from the 475.

That was a concern of mine as well. Again, I will reiterate that you would be hard pressed to convince a jury that this constituted a bullet failure, and really it didn't as it killed the mulie graveyard dead. However, the bullet was designed to open and it didn't.

Perhaps it really wasn't designed to open??

AH HA! ... now we are getting philosophical! lol

they definitely aren't designed to open like most hollow points