Ok since i got my new Super RedHawk .44 Mag ive been researching ammo for hunting and such. Most of the ammo ive already heard of and knew about since ive already owned a Taurus Raging bull 44. But looking at it and reading some of the specs of Today's Modern ammo got me thinking. Is there any real need for Revolvers like the .454 and bigger if you live in North America? Im not knocking the bigger calibers at all im just asking a serious question and i know no doubt how awsome they are and i will probably buy another .500 s&w again myself one day. But im asking because to me the .44 is the all around best gun for Hunting North America and far as ammo prices and availability. Looking at some of the Hot load .44 mag ammo thats on the market today sure seems like most of it is just as powerful as the .454 casull's factory ammo. Like Buffalo bore's .44 Mag +p 340 grn 1,480 fps and 1,650 ft lbs of energy!!! And thats rated out of a 7 inch barrel.. I mean man im pretty sure that would be fine for Grizzly Bear right?! And Revolvers like the Super RedHawk will handle that round no problem! And there is plenty of other high performance ammo for it as well like Double tap and others. So it just seems to me like the .44 mag is capable of a lot more then some people think it is and seems like a really good option being you can buy a box of 50 for $26 of the 240 grn stuff for shooting. So with today's high tech ammo and how crappy the price's of ammo and guns are right now the .44 Mag seems like the perfect Hunting Revolver im i right or wrong?? What do you guy's think? I think im just really impressed with some of Today's Modern Hunting ammo more then anything!!LOL

Ironic that you should post this, I have been having the EXACT same thought over the last couple of days. I feel exactly the same way. With today's modern ammo choices it makes the .44 a very powerful option. I mainly shoot only factory 240 gr. or lighter through mine, either JSP or JHP. For what I hunt I don't see the need for anything more. If I ever need anything more than 240 gr. there is plenty to pick from and all within safe pressures for my SBH. The .44 magnum has taken everything available to hunt long before the so called better, faster, more powerful rounds wee a twinkle in anyone's eye.

exactly!! Long before the 480 ruger 460 and 500 mag and others came out the 44 mag was the main hunting and protection revolver and that was with the old less powerfully ammo. But like I said before tho I love all those calipers as well I'm a revolver nut but there just not practical! $60 for ammo of 20 is crazy! I can see for hunting ammo that your just going to shoot at animals In the field but wow just to shoot is pricey ! And especially right now that's all that's available for those guns at the store and online right now! You have no choice but the reload if you own them and actually want to shoot them!

Paper ballistics are deceiving. I am firmly of the belief that the only reason they exist is to sell ammo. I know that is rather cylincal of me, but the paper numbers don't really tell you much and frankly muzzle energy numbers are a poor measure of lethality. Case in point, there are any number of smaller and lesser rounds that "produce" (actually ME is not measured or measurable, it is calculated) more ME than a .500 Linebaugh slinging a 500 grain bullet, but you can bet me which one will produce the bigger wound channel and there is a good chance it won't be the smaller round. Yeah, that is a bit of a generalization, however, the .44 Magnum is a round that has been with us a long time and been pressed to do many chores. Some it does well, some marginally. For me, if I had to choose one round over the .44 for all purposes (excluding all of the big bangers that I own), it would hands down be the .45 Colt. It can do all and more than the .429 Magnum with less effort -- heavier bullets, same velocities, less pressure. JMHO and your mileage may vary............

As far as ammo costs are concerned, there really is only one solution and that is to reload. You will save a bundle in the long run.

I do get what your saying but i do believe in paper numbers as a reference to buying the ammo. It is just a fact how much better the ammo is of today compared to back in the day so whatever the 44 mag did all those years it will only do it alot better now. I would never compare it to the .500 calibers because obviously those have a much wider bullet so even if with hot loads numbers were close which there not the 500 would still be more powerful i get that. But i would compare the 44 mag with the powerful 454 with the 44 mags new loads that are out on the market. I think its a fair comparison. Now obviously you can get the hot loads for the 454 and then that would be even more powerful and i just dont think the difference between .429 and .45 is crazy big enough to talk about bigger wound channels. to me the new .44 mag ammo is comparable to the regular 454 stuff. I dont think a whitetail size game especially would know the difference.

There is no replacement for displacement. A 452 bore will throw similarly weighted slugs at lower pressures, more efficiently and with less felt recoil, than a 429 bore. The difference is more pronounced as the bullet weight increases. If one is planning to throw 300's, a 45 is a better option than a 44. If 325's and up are on the menu, a 475 would be a better option than a 45, and so on. Nothing wrong with the 44, it will kill deer with authority, but larger bores definitely have their advantages.

I would agree that the 44mag is one of the best calibers for someone who does not reload to hunt and just have to shoot.

But I handload, so that is where I end and side with the 454 casull

Exactly. The difference between the .45 Colt and the .44 Mag is the same as the difference between the .45 and the .475 and no one seems to have a problem accepting that fact. The .45 can sling heavier lead in a larger diameter, period. Many will argue the difference is slight and unnoticeable,but I disagee. I think it gives you a little more, and that's enough to make me happy -- LOL!

Ya when you hand load it opens tons of doors for you. As of now i just shoot factory ammo. I still really think tho that this new .44 mag ammo that is out from buffalo bore and others would do a number on some really big game. Not that that matters for tho since i got my .44 mag for mainly whitetail hunting and black bear. Im really wanting to try the Double Tap XBP 225 grn .44 mag ammo with the Barnes copper bullet Rated at 1,500 fps out of 7.5 barrel probably close to 1,600 fps out of my 9.5 barrel! I think this would be a sweet whitetail round! Im thinkin that will put them down.LOL

There is nothing wrong with the 44 and in honesty if you research the history it's now somewhat anemic compared to what it was with the SAMMI pressures being lowered from 454 levels for liability reasons. As far as just caliber it's the same reason a bowhunter usually tries to use the widest cutting broadhead they can. A larger caliber equals a larger wound channel. This is especially important with the slower velocities and even more so the non expanding bullets many use in revolvers. The 44 will and has taken every animal in NA and even elephant but it wouldn't be my first choice for the latter. As for deer and black bear it's plenty however when you step up to one of the larger guns you've bought insurance on have even more confidence that the bullet will go through and through. I play with everything, I build big bore single actions but right now my newest play toy and caliber is a 1911 in 460 Rowland. I just chronod two loads using a 200gr XTP and I was getting 1650 and 1850 with the two loads. I am going to check it on another chrono because those were truly impressive numbers. I still wouldn't use it for elk but for deer or cougar I would and I'd consider it as a back up gun for when I'm rifle hunting.

As far as wound Chanel's go that's and even bigger reason besides velocity of how amazing this new ammo is! A lot of this new stuff expands to enormous size. Heck even the solid bear loads the bigger grain bullets are longer in the case and pretty big ya maybe not wider but longer and a lot of times as soon as that bullet hits some none inside the animal it will go sideways and tumble around leaving a bigger exit hole! But the new stuff like gold dot , barns Xbp , buffalo bore deer grenades and others will take care of the wound channel . But as said if you reload there are some awesome calibers out there but if you don't and use factory ammo like me the 44 mag is hands down the best North American hunting revolver in my eyes ...

Might or might not. That is the reason I am not a big fan of expanding ammo at revolver velocities. Sometimes they spectacularly, often times they don't -- modern ammo/bullets included.

[quote=Whitworth]Might or might not. That is the reason I am not a big fan of expanding ammo at revolver velocities. Sometimes they spectacularly, often times they don't -- modern ammo/bullets included.[/quote) Buy the stuff with the best reviews do your own testing and try them out on animals only way to know.. Thats the fun part tho...LOL

I do more testing than perhaps you know. I didn't draw my opinion from anything but observation. If they were more consistent, it would be all I would use.

I was just saying that that's what I'm going to do is test all the ammo I can over the years and see what one performs the best from my revolver.. I like doing that kind if stuff.. Whatever one ends up performing the best is the one I will use for hunting and then hope for the best in its performance taking the animal..

As you should, I agree!

You will be fine with any of the quality hunting rounds off the shelf. Deer are not hard animals to kill. While I agree that the diameter is important, where you put that diameter whether it be a .22 or .512, is way more important than its size to me. I love the 44. I love the 45. I've killed more with the 44s than the standard 45 over the years unless you pull in the 454 which severely tips the scales in favor of the larger caliber but in the standard rounds, I've never felt undergunned with deer and hogs with a 44. I killed everything from squirrels to elk with the 44. It was what I started with first and for that reason, I'll probably always have a soft spot for it. For some animals though, the bigger calibers with appropriate slugs I think definitely have their place.

I got to try squirrel hunting with the .44 Mag! Ya Being a hard core archery hunter i agree shot placement is king. I think thats why Revolver hunting has my interest cause its the closest thing to archery with a gun. I like getting up close and personal with my big game.

You and me both. I find ity way more challenging than sitting in a stand with a scoped rifle.

I for one dont see a bit of difference bw the 45 colt and 44 mag and i could just absolutely care less on the difference bw the two. Its so far downfrom the psi the modern guns can handle i really could care less. I have a 10" 454 fa83 that has digested 20 years plus of ammo including thousands of the old triplex loads and its still as tight as it was the day i got it so theres nothing a 44 mag's pressure is gonna do to affect a gun that would make me feel as though i needed a lower pressure round. I am a firm believer that velocity does alot when it comes to actual wound channels. A few of this forums most esteemed members have pointed to the beartooth bullets wound channel calculator on that site and if ya go there plug in some numbers and the results are quite interesting. That said. We can argue bigger or faster. However when the round is bigger and faster then ya got an advantage there. The prime locale ive hunted that power beyond a 44 was welcomed was our POW blackbear hunt. Ya had to lnock them down quick to keep em from getting into the vegetation off the beach. Our guide basically told us if it hits the trees its gone. We were glad to have 475's and 454's



Mountain. I think you'll find the doubletap 225 gr 44 mag barnes to be quite to your liking. Expands to .8" and just lays a wound channel in the vitals thAt is beyond impressive. Kills very quickly. If youre looking for a round that will make ya really not look further than the 44 mag in northamerica that one is it

Mark, it's not the longevity of the firearm I am concerned with regarding high pressures, it's the propensity for the real high pressure rounds like the .454 to pull crimp. They have been known to do that and it happens more than anyone likes to admit. There is a reason why Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore fame and Mike Rintoul of Grizzly Cartridge, load their heavy bullet .454 loads down to lower pressures. Sundles even uses a proprietary crimp to lessen the possibility. Plus all that blast and noise doesn't necessarily buy you any more penetration. If you are using expanding bullets, velocity is your friend, however, even "high velocity" revolver rounds are limp noodles relatively speaking -- compared to rifle velocities. Hence the iffy performance of much expanding ammo -- works great sometimes, not so great other times. Your mileage may vary.

Read about Greg Brush and the grizz he had to kill that tried to attack him. Fortunately he hit the bear lethally with his last shot (5th) as his gun tied up from crimp pull. It's even happened to me on numerous occasions more often than not it has been with the .454.

I hate to say it but greg ran loads that werent tested properly and were too hot. Run hot 475 s out of an alaskan and watch the crimp pulling begin. most people load it down significantly and yes it works great and so does alot of 454 loads at 80 to 90 percent work great too but everyone seems to think ya gotta run them at 110% which ya dont. That said i wasnt talking about the 454 anyway. I was referring to the pressure diff of the 44 and 45 colt which i believe is meaningless. Ive never ever had a 44 mag round pull crimp and dont think thats an issue with a 44 mag. Heck when we reproduced bb 500 jrh facory balllistics we had some crimp pulling issues as well. The factory rounds ive had pull on guns larger than the alaskan dont have good crimps and theres not adequate case tension. Theres some ammo companies that ive never had pull crimp and some ive had big probs with.

Gun writers sell new calibers. Who wants to read articles on the same calibers for 40 years? I have read about the same wording in articles for years. Example: Contender articles start out with a brief, sometimes long story, of how the concept of barrel changing started. Then the meat of the article, which is usually the same stuff that Bob and Skeeter wrote about in the 80's. So along comes some new caliber and magazines now have a new product to explore and write about.
BTW - you opened a huge can of worms with this topic, the debate could last for years, with bullet technology so advanced, nobody needs anything bigger than a 9 mm! Lol!

I was never a fan of 9mm even in the army the 9mm Beretta. That being said with the new great expanding self defence ammo its alot better. I wouldnt use it for hunting tho..LOL Ill still take my .45 acp tho!!!

There's probably not much difference between the 44 Magnum loads that you reference and the really powerful stuff you can load with the 45 Colt. The Colt is a step up, though. It's not a quantum leap up, but it is higher on the food chain.

Really, if you are going to be serious about this you must handload.

Now, cartridges like the 475 L and 500 JRH, to give a couple of examples, are demonstrably more powerful than any 44 load. There's no getting around it. And though I do not have the experience of some of the others with regard to killing game with the big boomers, I have plenty of experience shooting them and loading for them.

Back to the 44 vs. 45 argument: You may never need the extra little bit of performance that a stout 45 Colt can deliver; certainly not while hunting whitetails. But, there is something to be said for a larger diameter bullet with a larger meplat. So again, there is a performance difference between the 44 Mag and the 45 Colt but you will never realize it while hunting deer. And for that application, your 44 Mag is as good as the 500 S&W that you got rid of a while back.

Now, start loading for that thing!

Well, when you can find components, that is.

there aint enough dif. between the 44mag and the 45lc to cause one to switch from one to the other. i like my 44 for reasons that ive said before. though, if i had started 30 years ago with the 45 id be in that camp.

I have both .44 and .454 and I always have dilemma which gun to chose for some particular hunt. I see that you have consensus about this topic – perhaps it’s time for somebody to give some wind in the back to the 45+ side

Comparing .44 max loads with extra-heavy 340grs bullets and “standard” .454 with lighter bullets just don’t seem to be fair.
If you are comparing hard cast bullets in .44 and .454 – I will agree with you (and I would exclude large African game from here) that difference is minor. In case you want to compare them in soft point field – situation is bit different. 454 will make more tissue damage not just because it’s 5% wider but also have higher velocity than .44 (with comparable weight). If you recall Elmer Keith words that with revolver goal are to have exit wound, which means that penetration is the name of the game. My belief is that with its great potential .454 stepped in quite new (rifle, I would say) territory when you can exchange some penetration (since you have plenty of it) for expansion. Again, it depends on size of game you are after and sure you can use soft points with .44 too but sometimes price can be lack of sufficient penetration.
Once again I have to mention Elmer – once he said that in case he have to chose just one weapon he will go for FA .454. Cannot agree more. BTW, in my .454 I can have .44 performances but not vice versa.

oh yeah, bigger AND faster is a big difference. i don't limit myself to hardcasts and i find them to NOT be the bast choice all the time. i don't find the 5% bigger to be worth much of anything and i've never seen an animal go down quicker nor find me with the situation where i have thought, "dang, if i'd have just used a round with 5% more frontal area the animal would've died." that's why i argue that hot 44's and hot 45 colts are about the same and it just doesn't matter either way. make a good shot and it's dead, mess up and stray outside the vitals and it's not. it's that simple. now where it makes a difference is when ya can push up the velocity a bit and use an expandable that gives ya 2x the frontal diameter and you start to have something there. that's where the 454 comes into it's own imho. run a barnes over 1800 fps and it works really really well. there's a huge difference b/w an a frame from a 454 at 1550 fps at 325 grs and a 45 colt running at 1200 fps or 1300 fps. the difference in a hardcast is not nearly the same as it is with an expandable and since i've use expandables with much success on bison and a waterbuff in the past i'm gonna pass them on use for elk on down for sure if the right one is used.
this is not some condemnation on the 45 colt, far far from it. i just think it's not much diff than a 44 mag.

I see and get everyone points on the subject but for me as I said before .44 mag is more then enough for whitetail and it really nice too have a ton of stock ammo flavors to chose from when you don't reload! And to me with today's super expanding ammo small differences in diameter of bullets like between a .44 and .45 is nothing..

I really have not shot alot of factory ammo in my 45 or 41 I have always reloaded for everything Is the factory stuff accurate and is there a difference between bullet weights do you have to adjust your sights are hold differently, for my money I love to work up loads and groups.

I think everybody pretty much agrees on this part.

For those that hunt bigger and more dangerous stuff, the choice of bigger calibers is great, even though the .44 would get the job done.

I have killed mule deer and antelope with my SBH .44 magnum but lately I really am enjoying hunting with my .475 Linebaugh and it has accounted for 4 mule deer bucks and 2 bull elk in just a few seasons.

It is good that deer do not read gun magazines or ballistics tables. Once they were being killed regularly with .44/40 carbines. It was considered THE deer gun, yet its ballistics are not close to the .44 Magnum handgun's. Placement, placement, placement.

it's just like the 7-30, any of you that have the Nosler reloading book have read the short story that Weisuhn wrote about it. Based on numbers it should be a varmint cartridge at most yet it continues to do what it shouldn't which is knock down deer after deer.

We tease{good naturally for the most part} about the .44 mag but you would be hard pressed to find someone on here that doesn't respect the .44 mag. It has killed everything kill able and will continue to do so,with proper shot placement.It is not ever ones favorite caliber ,but like ice cream we all like something different. I have killed only steel and rocks with mine where it does very well,[for a girlie gun] preferring my .45 colts for game.
The .480 will get some woods time this year,along with the .45s.Just remember SHOT PLACEMENT !!!!!!!is everything no matter how big a hole,how fast, or what kind or bullet you shoot.JMHO

Well said, Junebug!

Not dogging .45 colt but standard stock ammo for it is Weak!! Just as some say its not fair to compare hot .44 mag loads to regular 454 casull then its not fair to compare hot .45 loads to the standard .44 loads..

I do agree with you there as most people would who shoot the .45 factory load. But the .45 with those same weak loads has worked for well over 100 years for the cowboys and hunters who came before us. They didn't know they were shooting weak loads,so they just went happily along killing everything that needed killing with those same weak anemic loads .You can add the 44-40 38-40 32-20 and others to the list ,they used what they had at hand and put the bullets where they needed to be. Weak or not I sure ain't gonna stand in front of a 250 gr. .45 slug at 800 fps,and neither will anything else for long! We have it made as we can load up or down, go big or small ,cast or jacketed or full copper. I like them all and would never dog someones choice of caliber or what gun they shoot it in [much]and only in fun. .I have shot the .45 colt for going on 40 years though and it is a favorite,as is the Kel Tec 9 mm I call my American Express card, Cause I don't leave home without it!!!!!!!

Well said, junebug.

And I like your sage advice:

"We have it made as we can load up or down, go big or small, cast or jacketed or full copper."

Count up one more "coupe" for reloading!!!

It is almost a "sin" if you own a .44 mag and don't reload.

Just kidding!

Placement is No 1 no doubt about that!
I agree that there is not much difference btwn penetration of hard cast 325grs bullets pushed 1550fps and 1200fps. Furthermore, I believe that with hard cast you actually do not need anything more than 1300fps.
I would go back to .44 vs. 454 comparation - Again I agree that difference which does matter happen when it comes to soft point zone – this is exactly what I stated in mine 1st comment. This is the area where difference is becoming more significant and in favor of .454
I don’t want to sound picky but 5% larger diameter (.454 vs .44) means 10% more frontal area and I thing that it does matter – otherwise you can say that .44 is the same as .41 etc
BTW, in .454 I can have .44 (with proper handload) but not vice versa

I have a .44 magnum but I really like my Ruger 5 1/2" blackhawk in .44 special. With some stiff reloads it will handle anything I'm likely to run into around here. It shoots like having a rifle on your hip. The really good thing is it comes with the smaller frame not the big .44 mag frame.