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Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: Gary] #177377 01/11/2017 7:00 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Gary
There are enough guys here with experience killing stuff to know that using a 10mm on Cape buffalo is not the best idea and I agree with them. Cape buffalo are not bison or some other sort of semi-wild cow. Furthermore, unless I'm missing someone, there are only three of us on this thread that have actually hunted and killed Cape buffalo with a handgun. I won't speak for anyone else who has hunted buffalo but I would NEVER use a 10mm.



That shot was directed at me, wasn't it? Gary, there are a number of us who have shot bovines in the 1,400 to 2,000-lb category, and I think our opinions are credible enough to weigh in on this discussion. The fact is that Razor Dobbs was actually shooting the lighter 200 grain hardcast load and required one shot to bring down the first Cape buffalo. And then used two shots (same load) for the second. Obviously how you hunt them will also dictate how the animal reacts. Razor took both animals from a blind and evidently they were unaware. Three of my four water buffalo were alert to my intentions when I approached on the ground -- the way I like hunting them, not from a distance with a scope. In two years and on two separate occasions I saw Watusi get aggressive with humans. That is a pretty high percentage of aggressive animals. If the Cape buffalo is truly such a tough animal to hunt and so dangerous (I realize this comment will seem heretical to some here), how many times have you been charged? Case in point, one of these "semi-wild" cows as you so disdainfully refer to Watusis as, actually came for me at spitting distance and I had to put it down with an iron-sighted revolver. Not a Cape buffalo definitely, but I would rather deal with a dust cloud and retreating Cape buffalo than even a Jersey milk cow hellbent on my demise.

Now in the spirit of disclosure, how many Cape buffalo have you all shot, and how many water buffalo? What other bovines? Bison, yak, etc.?

You know, I don't think they make Cape buffalo this big.....



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Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: glynn41] #177378 01/11/2017 7:00 PM
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haven't done what? I never claimed to be a world known hunter that hangs out with other world known hunters, I just enjoy shooting and hunting with revolvers when I can, hogs, deer that's about all we got around where I live and I'm not rich so I can't go other places to do just that. John Linebaugh and Jack Huntington I've talked with at gun shows and on the phone and they've both done work for me and I listen to them and I told them what loads I was using and for the guns they built me and what they were for and neither one them said a negative thing about it, and that load has worked everytime so if its great to shoot a cape buffalo with a .40 caliber 230 grain hardcast lead bullet at 1150fps why wouldn't a 500 Linebaugh work?? baffles me

Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: tradmark] #177379 01/11/2017 7:26 PM
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As far as killing a lion goes, they are pussy cats and don't take much more than a deer or black bear with a good shot. Cape buffalo is an entirely different matter. Now if you have a month to try and get into the perfect position to shoot a buff at 30 yards then by all means go for it. If you get lucky and get into perfect position in 7-10 days go for it but if you're looking at that bull in the thick stuff and aren't even sure where the shoulder is then you better be very careful with your next move.


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Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: Gary] #177380 01/11/2017 7:43 PM
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No it wasn't directed at you but I watched the videos recently and you'll not likely get the same opportunity with a group of dugga boys. I honestly don't think Cape buffalo charge very often at the initial shot. It's on the follow up that they get very dangerous. The PH that I hunt with has been charged a couple times in the past two years by buffalo and had to stop them with a shot to the brain. Water buffalo can be equally dangerous and are also large. I was part of a large bovine (longhorn) hunt a couple years ago and it took a couple shots with my 475 to end the festivities (I wasn't the shooter but my gun was used.) Not taking anything away from anyone's experiences, I stated in the first sentence that there were enough guys with experience killing stuff to have a pretty good opinion on a 10mm. It's not something I would entertain at all for Cape or water buffalo. If someone wants to by all means have at it.


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Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: Gary] #177381 01/11/2017 8:19 PM
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2 Yak Bulls and 1 Water Buffalo...2 Nilgai Blue Bulls, I know they're not a bovine, but they can take one hell of a thumpin'


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Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: Ryan 500L] #177383 01/11/2017 8:29 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Ryan 500L
haven't done what? I never claimed to be a world known hunter that hangs out with other world known hunters, I just enjoy shooting and hunting with revolvers when I can, hogs, deer that's about all we got around where I live and I'm not rich so I can't go other places to do just that. John Linebaugh and Jack Huntington I've talked with at gun shows and on the phone and they've both done work for me and I listen to them and I told them what loads I was using and for the guns they built me and what they were for and neither one them said a negative thing about it, and that load has worked everytime so if its great to shoot a cape buffalo with a .40 caliber 230 grain hardcast lead bullet at 1150fps why wouldn't a 500 Linebaugh work?? baffles me


sorry, ryan, but that is why i asked. who do you talk to that, they themselves, or yourself, have actually successfully hunted cape buffalo? it's kinda like training for a fight and training with a guy that has just point fought and had a bit of sparring experience.........or do ya listen to who has been in the ring. not trying to be a jerk, just wondering what angle you're viewing this thru.

Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: sixshot] #177384 01/11/2017 8:57 PM
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 Originally Posted By: sixshot
The responsibility to make good hits & clean kills lies with the shooter, a shot in the dirt doesn't impress any animal,

Dick


Reminds me when after running to put a finish shot in my blesbok at around 30yds I jerked the trigger on my 454 and the bullet hit the dirt 10 ft in front of me when the PH said "I think you missed"....
...............a small bullet in the right place is better then a miss with a big one.....another page from the book of "Experience"


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Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: tradmark] #177385 01/11/2017 9:00 PM
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I always like these posts & most guys stay pretty civil although very few change their mind about what works & what is a proper load to take really big game with. Gotta love it!
I can't weigh in about anything bigger than elk & moose & African plains game but when you get into animals that size I do know they can take a lot of punishment most times. Sometimes I've seen them go down like they were hit with a bazooka! I assume every reply on here is directed at handguns only, it seems like sometimes so of them might be referring to rifles!
Just my opinion but those that know me will know I always use cast & I don't believe there is enough difference to really matter over a "good" cast bullet & the best jacketed solid out there in a handgun....not rifle! I've killed too many elk with cast to think differently. I know cape buffalo are bigger than elk or moose but cast, made properly will work, especially if a 40 caliber can do it....I think!
And a lot of those buffalo Lynn killed in Australia were killed with a 44 magnum using 300 gr. XTP's.

Dick

Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: sixshot] #177386 01/11/2017 9:10 PM
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Dick, Your a wizard when it comes to making good cast bullets....
you cast bullet son of a gun.........................


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Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: sixshot] #177387 01/11/2017 9:53 PM
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 Originally Posted By: sixshot
I always like these posts & most guys stay pretty civil although very few change their mind about what works & what is a proper load to take really big game with. Gotta love it!
I can't weigh in about anything bigger than elk & moose & African plains game but when you get into animals that size I do know they can take a lot of punishment most times. Sometimes I've seen them go down like they were hit with a bazooka! I assume every reply on here is directed at handguns only, it seems like sometimes so of them might be referring to rifles!
Just my opinion but those that know me will know I always use cast & I don't believe there is enough difference to really matter over a "good" cast bullet & the best jacketed solid out there in a handgun....not rifle! I've killed too many elk with cast to think differently. I know cape buffalo are bigger than elk or moose but cast, made properly will work, especially if a 40 caliber can do it....I think!
And a lot of those buffalo Lynn killed in Australia were killed with a 44 magnum using 300 gr. XTP's.

Dick


i assume you're in the proper bullet camp. just needs to be good! you've got plenty of experience on game. you need to try the dangerous biggies though. it's just toooooooo much fun!

Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: tradmark] #177388 01/11/2017 9:59 PM
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I'm no expert by a long shot. But I wouldn't hunt cape buff with a 10mm any sooner than I would use a .30-30 rifle on cape buff. It obviously can be done but....


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Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: tradmark] #177392 01/11/2017 11:34 PM
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I killed that behemoth of a water buffalo with a .450 Marlin after extensive bullet and load testing. It was 2500 lbs worth. Got charged twice and narrowly escaped having to shoot the two that charged. There was a doctor there when I killed it that had killed 5 cape buffalo and 3 water buffalo. He took quite and interest in the autopsy. He said he had never seen a cape buffalo close to the size of this critter. The load basically duplicated the power of a .500 S&W or right at 3000 ft lbs. I chased the devils for 4 hours before I ever got a good shot opportunity. They were wilder than deer. When I finally got a shot it was trotting at 50 yards. The bullet broke the onside front leg bone and penetrated through the lungs into the offside shoulder breaking it and stopping the beast. They said they had never seen anyone take one shot and dump one. I put a safety shot in it but it wasn't needed. I left a .416 Rigby that was my back up gun behind that with its +p loads was making 7000ftlbs. Would it have done anything that the .450 didn't do? Fact is if you can put a bullet through the stuff that makes it live its going to die.
To put this in perspective the horns are 27" wide. We measured it with the leg extended as if standing. This thing was 6' tall at the shoulder.


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Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: reflex264] #177393 01/11/2017 11:44 PM
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what kinda bullet did you use? that's a healthy beast there. very impressive!

Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: tradmark] #177394 01/11/2017 11:55 PM
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Beautiful Water Buff...I've always thought so....


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Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: reflex264] #177395 01/12/2017 12:13 AM
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 Originally Posted By: reflex264
I killed that behemoth of a water buffalo with a .450 Marlin after extensive bullet and load testing. It was 2500 lbs worth. Got charged twice and narrowly escaped having to shoot the two that charged. There was a doctor there when I killed it that had killed 5 cape buffalo and 3 water buffalo. He took quite and interest in the autopsy. He said he had never seen a cape buffalo close to the size of this critter. The load basically duplicated the power of a .500 S&W or right at 3000 ft lbs. I chased the devils for 4 hours before I ever got a good shot opportunity. They were wilder than deer. When I finally got a shot it was trotting at 50 yards. The bullet broke the onside front leg bone and penetrated through the lungs into the offside shoulder breaking it and stopping the beast. They said they had never seen anyone take one shot and dump one. I put a safety shot in it but it wasn't needed. I left a .416 Rigby that was my back up gun behind that with its +p loads was making 7000ftlbs. Would it have done anything that the .450 didn't do? Fact is if you can put a bullet through the stuff that makes it live its going to die.
To put this in perspective the horns are 27" wide. We measured it with the leg extended as if standing. This thing was 6' tall at the shoulder.
Nice animal!

Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: racksmasher1] #177396 01/12/2017 12:23 AM
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Thanks fellers. These are the actual bullets from the buff. The first one is the one that broke the leg and shoulder. The second was an insurance shot. the un-fired bullet shows what it started as. A 420gr Crater Lite.

Last edited by reflex264; 01/12/2017 12:24 AM.

"A quiet hit in the right place is better than a loud miss in the wrong place followed by 10 more shots on the run"

I was a handgun hunter, when handgun wasn't cool.....
Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: reflex264] #177397 01/12/2017 12:26 AM
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By bringing a rifle in I didn't mean to jump topics. I was simply making a point. Fact is it worked. I didn't feel under-gunned on either charge.


"A quiet hit in the right place is better than a loud miss in the wrong place followed by 10 more shots on the run"

I was a handgun hunter, when handgun wasn't cool.....
Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: reflex264] #177398 01/12/2017 12:35 AM
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that`s a BIG boy for sure.....


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Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: jamesfromjersey] #177399 01/12/2017 12:37 AM
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 Originally Posted By: jamesfromjersey
that`s a BIG boy for sure.....


No doubt!! Very nice!


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Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: PsTaN] #177400 01/12/2017 1:10 AM
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 Originally Posted By: PsTaN
I want to use the new tech ...
I want to use the old tech ...
I don't want to use a Speer ...

LoL


Peter Hathaway Capstick writes about using a spear to take a cape buffalo. if those are my options i'll take the 10mm or maybe stay home. i'mtoo old fat and slow for that crap. col. d wesson use a 357 on elk-130 yrds, moose-100yrds, and grizzly-135 yrds. i dont think many of us would say today that 357 is medicine for grizzly.... nor 10mm for cape buff. not slamming anyone. some people can shoot under 4" at a 1000 yards with the right rifle, most couldn't hit a flock of box cars at 1000 yards.

Whitworth let me make tell you that having been raised on a small farm where we did every thing by hand ( like it was the bleeping 1860's not the 1960's) jersey milk cows are the most miserable, conniving, evil minded animals on the face of Gods green earth. especially if you dont de-horn em " cause they look soooo natural with their horns." a good clout with a half full milk bucket between the eyes will keep em at bay though.

lighten up guys
\:\)

Last edited by bluecow; 01/12/2017 1:40 AM.

Everything before "but" is B.S.
Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: bluecow] #177405 01/12/2017 1:45 AM
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Colonel Doug Wesson`s big game hunting with the 357 Magnum, if used as a basis of judgement of the handgun as a hunting weapon, leaves nothing to be desired in the way of performance. And as bluecow says above "not many of us would say today that the 357 is medicine for grizzly" or for most of the game Col.Wesson took....
However, he knew his game and where to hit them and had full faith in his weapon of choice and how to shoot it.....Know your gun...know your game....and any limitations that follow.


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Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: jamesfromjersey] #177407 01/12/2017 2:03 AM
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Well said, James!


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Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: bluecow] #177408 01/12/2017 2:07 AM
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 Originally Posted By: bluecow
[quote=PsTaN]
Whitworth let me make tell you that having been raised on a small farm where we did every thing by hand ( like it was the bleeping 1860's not the 1960's) jersey milk cows are the most miserable, conniving, evil minded animals on the face of Gods green earth. especially if you dont de-horn em " cause they look soooo natural with their horns." a good clout with a half full milk bucket between the eyes will keep em at bay though.

lighten up guys
\:\)


Haha! I was exaggerating to make my point, however, Watusi ain't milking cows! At least not the ones we've killed. Bovine in general are cantankerous and not to be trusted!


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Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: Whitworth] #177409 01/12/2017 2:57 AM
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tradmark, I know what you mean. When animals get that big they just seem to be almost bullet proof. Even though I didn't hunt them in Africa I talked with the PH's & seeing you guys here on the different forums that have shot the bigger, nasty stuff I know it's a different ball game. Would be fun to tangle with one up close & personal. If I had my choice it would be hippo's on land, not in the water, I would prefer a fair fight. Wouldn't give a nickel to shoot one in the water. Congrats to all of you who have hunted the really big stuff.

Dick

Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: bluecow] #177413 01/12/2017 4:57 AM
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 Originally Posted By: bluecow
lighten up guys
\:\)


I love it!

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Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: sixshot] #177414 01/12/2017 5:41 AM
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 Originally Posted By: sixshot
tradmark, I know what you mean. When animals get that big they just seem to be almost bullet proof. Even though I didn't hunt them in Africa I talked with the PH's & seeing you guys here on the different forums that have shot the bigger, nasty stuff I know it's a different ball game. Would be fun to tangle with one up close & personal. If I had my choice it would be hippo's on land, not in the water, I would prefer a fair fight. Wouldn't give a nickel to shoot one in the water. Congrats to all of you who have hunted the really big stuff.

Dick


Its all fun and i genuinely envy those of you that have got to run through the mountains and chase muley's, elk, and moose. Each has its draw but ill tell ya africa has its own draw. However, i must admit running thru texas with nothing between you and a bovine that wants to stomp you, except your revolver is just as exciting here as africa!!! In fact, here theres no ph with an express rifle to cover your butt. If ya ever wanna do it here, lemme know and i will set it up. Bring some of those wicked bullets you make and lets do it. I can set it up if youre ever interested! Lemme know

Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: tradmark] #177431 01/12/2017 8:38 PM
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Lived in Texas for 4 years in Sherman. Our first 2 kids were born there & we loved it. Got to hunt around Brownwood several times because an old farmer that felt sorry for a poor GI took me to his lease, just like heaven!
Went back in 07-08 of for the winter at Fredricksburg/Bandera for the winter & did feral hogs with the knife & my om 41 shorty then out to west Texas to a Dr. friend where I got 2 javelina with the om 41 shorty. Also go to hunt between Sonorra & Del Rio once & got a nice white tail that I have mounted. Quite a side story to that hunt where I finished off another buck without a gun.

Dick

Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: sixshot] #177440 01/12/2017 10:14 PM
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i would love to hear it!

Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: bluecow] #177485 01/13/2017 4:51 PM
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We've strayed off the topic of 10mm for buffalo but that's ok it's been a good discussion. I did watch a video recently and the PH was of the opinion that only about 5 of 100 buffalo will charge after being wounded. He made a very good point in my opinion it's the buffalo that is mortally wounded but not dead yet that is the most dangerous and prone to charge. Buffalo wounded but not fatally hit nearly always retreat to fight another day. I have little doubt that this has been his experience in 30+ years of hunting buffalo.


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Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: Gary] #177487 01/13/2017 5:20 PM
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the lions, those were different. they don't have to be shot to wanna come atcha! the buffalo hunts were fun but i truly wouldn't put them on the level of the lion for danger, but i was thinking last night about this and i would be alot more nervous on a lion with a 10mm despite it being a much smaller animal than i would a buffalo. i may be the only one but....i want the result on the lion gary got when he hit it with that 454.

Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: tradmark] #177490 01/13/2017 6:08 PM
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I have question about a responses that hasn't been brought up yet (may be for good reason, but I don't know). I know there was lot of discussion about making sure your first shot is on target, but what about fast second (or third and fourth) shots on target? Is that on peoples minds when they make caliber choices? I am always conscious of the lack of a quick follow up shot with a single shot pistol and definitely pass on shots for that reason.

IMHO one of the advantages of a lower recoil round/platform (with demonstrated adequate performance) is lack of muzzle rise and reduced time to bring the sight back on target should a second shot be needed. In a charge situation, I think this would be of considerable benefit where a CNS is the only way to guarantee an instant drop. Is this a reasonable question or am I dragging up lots of baggage and stirring the pot?

Shooting large recoil weapons is one thing, but it is different from putting 2 or 3 shots on target as quickly and accurately as possible. Some might say this is this one of the things where in the heat of the moment you don't remember/notice, but the physics of the situation with the muzzle rise is not going to change.

Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: karl] #177494 01/13/2017 7:00 PM
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karl, I have never worried about quick follow-up shots. Your first shot is going to be the best shot you'll get -- and in many cases, the only shot. Due to this fact -- I have never felt handicapped by using a single-shot handgun. This is just one man's humble viewpoint.

Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: karl] #177495 01/13/2017 7:06 PM
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Lions and buffalo are amazingly quick and it has been my experience that you don't get an opportunity for a quick follow up shot with a handgun. Sometimes you don't with a rifle either. Here is the thing about buffalo, unless you find one that is a single animal, you damn sure don't want to hit your buff on the first shot and then wound another one in the fusillade that follows with "quick" follow up shots. Like someone once said, "if your first shot on a buffalo isn't fatal then the next 27 with a big-bore rifle will have little effect". That's obviously an exaggeration but I think everyone gets the point.


You can't wait any longer. Join the NRA and start writing your Congressmen and Senators.
Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: Whitworth] #177496 01/13/2017 7:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
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Gary Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Whitworth
 Originally Posted By: bluecow
[quote=PsTaN]
Whitworth let me make tell you that having been raised on a small farm where we did every thing by hand ( like it was the bleeping 1860's not the 1960's) jersey milk cows are the most miserable, conniving, evil minded animals on the face of Gods green earth. especially if you dont de-horn em " cause they look soooo natural with their horns." a good clout with a half full milk bucket between the eyes will keep em at bay though.

lighten up guys
\:\)


Haha! I was exaggerating to make my point, however, Watusi ain't milking cows! At least not the ones we've killed. Bovine in general are cantankerous and not to be trusted!


Well your first mistake was thinking you could trust anything from Jersey! No offense James.
\:\)


Last edited by Gary; 01/13/2017 7:10 PM.

You can't wait any longer. Join the NRA and start writing your Congressmen and Senators.
Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: Mark Hampton] #177507 01/13/2017 10:48 PM
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s4s4u Offline
Shootist
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Posts: 9,608
 Originally Posted By: Mark Hampton
karl, I have never worried about quick follow-up shots. Your first shot is going to be the best shot you'll get -- and in many cases, the only shot. Due to this fact -- I have never felt handicapped by using a single-shot handgun. This is just one man's humble viewpoint.


My view as well. My Daddy taught me early on to make the 1st one count.


Rod, too.

Short cuts often lead to long recoveries.
Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: s4s4u] #177510 01/13/2017 11:29 PM
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Franchise Offline
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X2


The Eyes are Useless, When The Mind Is Blind
Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: Franchise] #177513 01/14/2017 12:28 AM
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sixshot Offline
old hand
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Agree on that first shot because it will be/should be a quality shot, especially on dangerous game. Plus the PH should be ready to starting pounding lead if anything goes wrong with that first shot. I think it's pretty much standard practice for the PH to start shooting if the animal doesn't go down, I know it was when I hunted there.
I also agree that a big cat that's wounded would be very scary, whether you were following up with a 10mm or a grenade! The lions I've been around are scary fast!

Dick

Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: sixshot] #177514 01/14/2017 12:59 AM
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tradmark Offline
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The lions just seem more prone to
Know youre there and are just flat out aggressive. I also agree with the first shot being the one to count. Dont count on getting a second unless its a lion. The ph will have u shoot until it doesnt twitch at all. To me it was amazing how much more serious everyone got when it came to the lion vs the buff. They werent clowning around with either but the lion was just a different level imho

Re: 10mm Cape Buffalo [Re: tradmark] #177533 01/14/2017 8:30 AM
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Raptortrapper Offline
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I doubt I'll ever get to go to Africa. Chasing mountain lions, bears, deer, and elk are the love of my life. But for me, I've never wanted to do it with anything less than a 45 Colt, until now.

The 10mm bug has recently bitten me pretty hard, and I just might go after lions, bear, and deer with it, but it hasn't bitten me hard enough to make me wanna go chase polar bears with it. Perhaps it can be done, but it isn't gonna be done by this middle aged, overweight, slow runnin white boy!! For elk and anything larger, I'll stick with the 45 Colt.


A lot of people are like a slinky: Not much fun till you push them down the stairs!

Lifetime Member of the NRA! Wish I'd a done it sooner.
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