I just made a Texas heart shot on a 150-175# boar at about 60 yards. He bucked and spun like a rodeo bull then shot away, through much other hog sign, leaving no blood trail.

Maybe I?m guilty of having higher expectations than reasonable but a short trail, if any, was expected. This was from a SRH 454 with 30.5grs of W296.

Thoughts?

My first thought is that shot placement says it all.

But the anti-Hornady crowd will be along shortly to blame the bullet.

:-)

In truth, we will never know. Without a dead body or a firewd bullet we will never know which aspect caused the failure. The bullet for the shooter.

That is not a slight towards either one. Just a fact, that without tangible evidence we will never know. All else is speculation.

Completely agree Zee. Could have been on my part, I?m far from perfect. But it felt good. I️ ask because there is tons more experience on here than I️ have.

For that size boar and everything else taken into account, I would have expected you to have found your boar a short distance away.. Two months ago I hit a blackbuck at the same distance with a 400gr XTP from my FA`s 475 LB. The buck jumped skyhigh and ran. The guide and I thought we would find him about 20yds away from the hit but nothing....No blood ...Nothing.. They found him dead so many days later about 400yds from the hit...He was to chewed up to tell a story, but I know it was a bad shot on my part...Nothing to do with the XTP.... All about where I placed the bullet....

Yes....

Guess I'm anti Hornady, but not all their bullets. I've had terrible luck with XTPs in most calibers-poor penetration, poor wound channels- all in animals I eventually recovered, plus recovered the poorly penetrated bullets from good hits.
I think James and I are of the pro AFrame crowd- good penetration, lots of damage, and minimal tracking. Handgun Xs are about as good.

Don't know that I'm anti hornady, they are great a making things explode violently. I love the V-max bullet and so do several of my firearms, but imho their brass and other products are up for discussion. Placement is always key, but I get few enough chances to draw a bead on a game animal that I opt for a premium bullet so at least that part of the equation isn't in question.

HANDGUN400: I AM 99% SURE YOU KILLED THAT PIG. I HAVE ALWAYS DONE WELL WITH 45 CAL 300 gr XTP's ON DEER AND IMPALA, BUT THEY ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR TEXAS HEART SHOTS. WITH A FLAT POINT FMJ YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN PROCESSING THAT PIG NOW INSTEAD OF WONDERING.

Was there no time for another shot? If he bucked and spun I would have tried to poke some more holes into him. I of the school that, if he still standing i'm still shooting.Had you of hit bone, hind leg or spine he would have went down at least for a few seconds so possibly no bone hit. Just don't loose confidence in your load or yourself, learn from the experience and move on.

There ain?t a perfect man in this world. Welcome to reality.

Handgun 400 Since you used the 300 XTP Mag... I am thinking that the hog is dead somewhere and probably already eaten by his friends. NO blood trail does not surprise me one bit. Don't matter if it was 2 holes 1 in and 1 out. Hair mud and fat seem to all work together to plug and cover holes. I have seen hogs with broke legs, or shot off legs take off running. They are not tanks or super animals, but fear, survival instinct, and adrenaline Kick in for a superb performance of tenacity, that amazes the best of them. The pig was not too big for that bullet. JMHO,,, but even if placement was not up to your desired POI, or expectations.... DO not let this slow you down. Do not give up so easy next time. Try to track that animal. You may have been easier surprised than not. Also don't hesitate to take a second shot.

There was a few seconds when a better man may have squeezed off another shot and hit. Honestly didn?t think he?d even make it past the spin. I?ve killed a bunch but never had one do this. Also, he ran with both hind legs which makes me think the hit was below the spine and above the scrotum. Guess it could have parted the boys too but seemed to be in enter line with no broken hams

Sounds like neither leg, nor the pelvis or spine was compromised.

...but there are some who think they are....

I have lost count of critters killed with that bullet. As long I have have done my job the bullets worked. I had one fail to expand on a ram once. I believe the thick wool clogged the HP limiting expansion.

HG400,Once shot a boar a little bigger then yours with 210gr XTP from S&W 657.... BANG... he dropped on the spot dead...at least I thought he did...as I walk toward him he jumps up and takes off. Fired a shot that just caught back leg...no stop.... chased that son of a bitch until I could finish... found the first shot was below spine but above lungs...."no mans land".... It can be difficult to get off a 2nd shot especially when you think it`s not needed... One thing I do know is that next time you will be ready for a second shot whether or not its needed....Just like you, I learn something new on each new kill....

Funny, I️ use the same phrase ?no mans land? to describe above the lungs and below the spine.

Great minds and all.

That is a very common expression in the bow hunting world.

BLUE WIIDEBEEST ARE FAMOUS FOR THEIR BIG "NO MAN'S LAND".

"No Man's Land" pushed me to give up bow hunting and take up the short guns. I wanted the challenge of getting close to the animal, but not having them "jump the string", or seeing me draw the bow. As far as the "Texas Heart Shot", I live in the Lone Star State and have never taken one. I would only consider it with a hard cast or solid bullet, because you are trying to reach their heart through their rear end. I ain't cleaning it! Where I hunt, pigs/feral hogs are more like R.O.U.S.'s. There is no respect for them as a game animal like a whitetail. I like the XTP's, and have never had an issue with them, but I know their limitations and aim accordingly. Get back out there and try it again! Good luck!

I always want to recover whatever I shoot. Having said that, our pigs are known to carry brucellosis, TB and a host of parasites which flourish in warner months. They are a target of opportunity that I shall not pass.

I probably got into my own head with this one. Having read on here about the XTP love/hate relationship compiled with a marginal shot. I'd sure like to find him and do an autopsy/recover the bullet and look at the path it took. Perhaps I'll find him soon and learn more.

Good luck Handgun400 in finding that "dead hog." Let us know if you do.

I have only handgunned one big hog, but I tend to agree with 45man and Mech 8; basically that was not the right bullet for that shot. Plus as Zee said, "shot placement says it all." I believe these guys got it covered.

As others have said, learn and move on.

Thank you for sharing your experience with us.

How about the xtp performance on your sika? Onviously dead but how would that translate into a bigger animal.

I am not anything close to perfect which is why i need as big of a margin for error as possible. I have had great luck with xtp?s and recovered some very very poorly performing bullets. Not much matters on deer. Hogs can be tough or can go down easy. When the game gets bigger i stay away from em but thats just me. I prefer a bonded bullet. If ya dont wanna spend the money on aframes or barnes the speer deep curl work great and many times are cheaper than xtp?s. They work really well. I had great luck with xtp?s in the past and then started having erratic results. Thats about the time i heard they were using softer copper or guilding metal for the jackets. Heard this again recently.

That is interesting info as far as the "softer copper."

For a "Texas Heart Shot" a bonded bullet would no doubt be better as
you need maximum penetration.

Bonded bullets made all the difference this weekend.

And thats not a call out james. Im working and reread my post. My point is what happened to that bullet on the sika may have been what happened to the blackbuck and what happened to this guys hog. Quite frankly its happening to alot of people especially with the bigger calibers. Heart shots on hogs are iffy at best anyway but ive done em effectively with the right bullet. Im not pro or anti anything and based on how accurate they are id love hornady xtps to be the most awesome bullet in existence based on price. For deer theyll kill everything 99% of the time if u do your part. I just post what happened when i or anyone post bullet recoveries.

I am pretty new to handgun hunting and I don?t have experience with the ?old? vs the ?new? xtp?s, but I used a 240gr .454 to try to take down a ram that was getting a little too comfortable around people. Shot that thing in the vitals at damn near 5 yards (we have it on video) and it didn?t even turn and look at me. Shot again, and it just started trotting off with the herd. Last shot into the shoulder finally took it down. I?ve never had a Barnes fail to kill what I was shooting at, be it a small doe or a good sized oryx. That was the first and last time I used an XTP. They?re cheap, but not cheap enough

What did the autopsy show from where the first two shots went?

One shot through the vitals failed to open, just penciled through. Second shot was nothing but small fragments through a narrow wound channel. Both shots in the lungs, but no major vessels hit. Have had similar shots on deer with the barnes that blew almost fist sized holes into the lungs.

How would that translate into a bigger animal??? Read on......
South Africa 2014... Every animal besides Cape buff was cleanly taken with the same gun, bullet and velocity as the Texas sika.. hartebeest, nyala, warthog, bushbuck...all bigger...all dead...Florida.. water buff (bovine).. one shot with same gun and bullet...dead...bullet placement...Remember shooting fallow buck at 40 yards with factory 260gr partition by Winchester from 454... neck shot... dead... no one was more surprised then me when expanded partition was sSTOPPED against neck bone...bullet failure??? maybe...depends how you look at it...is the glass half full or half empty?? for me it worked The original post could have a hundred different answers and all would be correct but my choice of bullet has nothing to do with it.....

The first shot acted like a cast bullet then?
Second bullet didn't seem to open either, with the exception of small fragments.

What happened to my blackbuck was bad shooting on my part...

When i say translate to a bigger animal im talking about that exact same bullet used and that exact bullet doing that on a bigger animal. Obviously it worked well many times for ya and thats not the issue. The bullet the gentleman above speaks of worked well for me many many times in the past then had some failures. Its just a discussion about ratio of good to bad and its no different than wvhitmans observations in the aframe thread. No harm no foul.

Neck and spine shots, to me, are different animals and the spine is a tough bone and i have no clue how much a 260 partition weighs after it shed the lead forward of the partition but yeah, i would be super impressed by that. It would make me take note for sure.

Ernie, its been my experience that hollow points that dont open do a poor imitation of cast bullets especially wfns. Illustrated by my sons wt deer last year shot several times thru the vitals with one that clearly didnt open. Didnt do near the damage of a flat nosed cast. Your experiences may vary from mime

It would be interesting to see what had happened since it died and the way it reacted. Guess we will never know exactly where it was hit though those instances make my mind work like the kennedy assasination.

Never shot a hog. First whitetail I shot with 44 we tracked 400-600 yards. My cousin got out a ziplock bag cause he wanted the heart. We couldn?t find it. Only small pieces of what was left. Was shocked animal could go that with heart blown apart. Only shoot double lung now and all have been recovered within 50 yards.

I've been moving in the other direction. I have found that a heart shot animal is closer to death than a lung shot animal. Sometimes only one lung is clipped and you may never find the animal. The heart, on the other hand......

I've been away for the last few days so I haven't weighed in on this discussion, but here it goes.

I'm not a "hater" as that denotes some sort of emotional attachment to an inanimate object. I am however someone who evolves when he sees patterns developing from the use of certain equipment (bullets, guns, optics, etc.). I have used XTPs to some success, but have always had my concerns as they did not perform as advertised. For example, and expanding bullet that doesn't expand. When they don't expand they do a poor impersonation of a non-expanding flat-nosed solid. That's just a fact.

I personally think the OP used the wrong bullet on a Texas heart shot. It's just the wrong tool for the task at hand, favoring a bullet that provides uncompromising penetration. That said, as Zee pointed out, until the animal is recovered and dissected, all of this discussion is speculation. That said, I have experienced first hand poor results from the bullets in question, which is not up for speculation. I have no qualms against the shot the OP chose as I have used it successfully in the past, but I typically load for maximum penetration.

Below are a few examples of the bullets that have failed that I have witnessed.

Facts to consider.......

All animals react differently when hit.... one or two or whatever accounts of something not going the way you like with a bullets is still more than likely left in the guessing realm and not necessarily the fact side.

A bullet in the vitals will kill the animal. Shot placement trumps all else.

If you don't want to track....punch both shoulders...

The bullet, gun, scope, rings, bases, and other things are all the easy scape goat for shooter error.

I have been fortunate enough to take a lot of fair chase game. Used sierra, xtp, barnes, cast, and Im sure some others along the way. As long as I did my part meat was in the freezer. If I didn't have meat in the freezer 99.9% of the time it was my fault.

I'd take the shot again, same bullet and load, given the chance. Primarily because every hog we kill is one less to take out of the woods. They are vermin.

That being said, I learned (emphasis on learned) the limitations of the XTP through my experience and your input. I originally chose to shoot it because of availability and previous success with their rifle bullets. So now I'm tasked with finding another bullet to shoot. Appreciate all the input and guidance.

There have been enough recovered unmushroomed XTP?s to cause concern. Greg Richter moderator here recovered a 400 grain .475 XTP from a mule deer that didn?t expand. That is bullet failure even with a recovered deer.

See below
http://www.handgunhunt.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=1339&ppuser=2724

Hornady 300 XTP fired from a G2 Contender at roughly 1200 FPS. This bullet passed through a 200 lb +/- hog sholder and stuck in the skin on the far side. Pig dropped in its tracks. These bullets will do their job properly placed.

ALTHOUGH I HAVE SUCCESSFULLY USED XTP's IN THE PAST IN HEAVY 454/45 COLT LOADS, AND STILL USE THEM FOR HEAVY PRACTICE AMMO, YEARS AGO I DECIDED THAT I PREFER TO KNOW WHAT THE BULLET WILL LOOK LIKE WHEN IT HITS AND PENETRATES THE ANIMAL BEFORE I SHOOT THE BULLET! TOO MANY VARIABLES WHEN YOU RELY ON A BULLET TO MUSHROOM, etc., THAT IS WHY WITH THE LARGER BORES, e.g. .429 AND UP, I PREFER TO USE FN BULLETS WITH A GOOD SIZED MEPLAT AND BULLET INTEGRITY TO THE MAX.

More for me.

Win!!!

;-)

Sorry zee, but i have a couple thousand to reload, so ya cant habe em
All.

45MAN,
What WFN bullet do you prefer, if one over others?

FOR DANGEROUS GAME MY 1st CHOICE IS THE PUNCH BULLET. I USED A 45 BARNES BUSTER ON A BLACK BEAR LAST YEAR AND IT DID WELL BUT THE MEPLAT MAY BE A LITTLE TOO SMALL, DO NOT HAVE ENUFF EXPERIENCE WITH THEM OTHER THAN TO SAY THEY ARE WORTH A TRY. THE LEHIGH 300 gr. 45 CAL. WFN BULLET LOOKS VERY GOOD BUT I HAVE NOT USED ANY YET. FOR DEER, PIGS AND SIMILAR SIZED GAME, IN 45 CAL., CAST WFN's IN 260 gr. ON UP SHOULD ALL DO WELL, BUT I WOULD NOT USE THEM ON LARGER GAME BECAUSE THEY CAN BE DEFICIENT IN BULLET INTEGRITY. A CAST 260 gr. WFN @ 900 - 1,400 FPS SHOULD BE MORE THAN ADEQUATE WITH WELL PLACED SHOTS ON DEER. IN THE 900 - 1,100 fps RANGE THEY ARE ALSO PLEASANT TO SHOOT AND DO NOT WEAR YOU OUT. AS FAR AS BRANDS OF CAST WFN's, I HAVE NOT USED ENUFF DIFFERENT KINDS TO SAY ONE IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER.

IN A PRIOR POST THREAD UNDER, AS I RECALL, "THE ORIGIN OF FMJ FLAT POINT BULLETS", WE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSION RE BULLETS.

Would the punch bullet or the Barnes buster be considered a full metal jacketed bullet? If so they would be illegal here in Ky.for game animals.

All handgun Bullets sold in the United States meet the legal definition of ?expanding bullets?. Non expanding handgun bullets are not legal in the US.

I WOULD CONSIDER THE PUNCH AND BARNES BUSTER AS FMJ's. IN KY. THEN YOU MAY HAVE TO OPT FOR CAST WFN, WLN, TYPE BULLETS. THE BUREAUCRATS IN KY. WERE OBVIOUSLY TRYING TO OUTLAW MILITARY BALL BUT IN DOING SO OUTLAWED SOME INCREDIBLE HANDGUN KILLING BULLETS, TOO BAD.

That may be true in theory, but I'd rather not take a chance arguing that theory with an officer. Bullets used in MN must have some exposed lead or a hollow point.

Rey, ive been very pleased with the lehighs

It is not a theory it is a fact. The Punch Bullet is technically considered a hollow point by BATF

Just priced them and Punch bullets aren't going to happen here. So I just ordered some Cast Performance WFNGC bullets this morning.

They're not really necessary until really large animals (with correspondingly large trophy fees) are on the menu. JMHO.

If I get the opportunity to pursue something that large I won't worry about bullet price!

If only more people thought the way you do! Many want to cut costs in all the wrong places and in my humble opinion, this is the last place to cut cost when your hunt is costing you five figures. You are an enlightened and logically thinking individual!

Easy there, flattery will gain you admiration.

I no longer spend $100s on camo clothing, even for bowhunting. The pricey gadgets, next-best-things and "game changers" (good grief I hate that phrase) don't interest me. I DO use quality killing devices and appropriate components--thus, I'm changing bullets because the cast bullet will offer more penetration than my XTP.

How I look is less important than how my equipment performs.

MAX: CORRECT, CORRECT, CORRECT. THE PUNCH BULLETS ARE NOT EVERYDAY BULLETS, BUT IF WHAT YOU ARE HUNTING IS DANGEROUS AND/OR BIG AND/OR EXPENSIVE, THE PUNCH BULLETS HAVE NO EQUAL.

IF, I ever hunted something that big, I wouldn't use cast, but I would use a punch bullet.

Haha! Seriously, I know folks who will try to cut bullet costs at every opportunity and it is often a recipe for disaster. It's just nice seeing someone follow a useful trail of logic.

There`s no doubt that the Punch bullet is the best penetrating bullet for a handgun on the market, but I`ed like you to look at the dead boar that I shot using these bullets in preparation for an African hunt. It was on this boar that I learned about midrange trajectory with heavy bullets and with the load sighted for 100 yards I hit him around 50 and the bullet stricking a couple inches high in that "no man`s land" just below the spine but above the lungs... Knocked him down.... He got up and I chased him through a swamp until I placed the shot you see. The point being... a bad miss with a $100 bullet is not worth a good hit with a $.10 one..........Experience is the best teacher.........Man O Man that is a big handgun... I should have tripped him then beat `em to death

I've stayed out of this post, but let's think about this, there are definitely better bullets out there than XTP'S. I've had great success with them, and I've also seen them slip their jackets and loose their cores. In all of these cases, if I did my part, I cleanly killed the animal

I have never made a good shot on an animal where I made a good hit that I didn't find a little blood. I've made a lot of poor hits or clean misses, but in every case, I was the problem

I'm not a fan of the Texas Heart Shot at all, but in all of my experiences, there has been a lot of blood and other bodily fluid mixtures 😉 left behind when I made those shots. That part of the animal is very visceral to say the least

And that is what had me perplexed. Admittedly, I expected more penetration (guessing what I got was not much) and better results from the .454. At this point I'll never know what, why or where exactly. the terrain was thick and dry sloughs with a lot of hog sign. Que sera.

U wont know if ya dont recover the animal. We video most of our hunts and it helps to see the bullet hit and know ya made a good shot.

It must be great when you can video most of your hunts

I know I`ed be my biggest fan....

We have it so much better now than when I first started hunting with a handgun.Better scopes bullets and guns. The internet and this site allow us to compare notes and discus guns, loads,scopes red dots,bullets in real time.Bullets and loads have gotten better because of this, both cast and jacketed.It has also killed the myth of the MAGIC BULLET or gun caliber that hits him anywhere and knocks him down DRT. The bullet has to be placed thru the vitals,and get to the vitals with enough force to disrupt them and make them leak. [shot placement is still everything] But as the size of the animals get bigger the bullet integrity takes on new meaning and [nearly but not quite ] matches placement in importance. Remember no magic bullets,and a close miss on the vitals is still a miss. That's where perseverance comes in ,once you start the fight,if he's still standing keep shooting.

That makes two of us, ha

Haha. Im my biggest critic

You and me both!

I am jumping in a bit late to this party however I would like to add my experience with XTP performance on game. I have had 3 instances where an XTP failed to open on deer.
All shots were a 300gr XTP (44 mag) pushed at about 1250 fps.
Shots ranged from 2 yards to 50 yards.

The 50 yard shot went through the spine, just above the front shoulder. The bullet turned around and was found base forward just under the hide on the opposite side.


A followup coup de gras from 2 yards went through the heart and was also found backwards under the hide on the opposite side. The bullet looked similar to the first one but with more pronounced slumping.

On a side note, I guess I can join jamesfromjersey's backwards bullet club

I also had a 20 yard shot where the hit was right in the crease behind the front leg. The bullet penciled through, getting both lungs in the process, resulting in a ~200 yard tracking job. The lungs showed a nice clean caliber sized hole in and out. It didn't look like the bullet opened up at all.

Both animals were found and I made what I believe to be decent shots.
I think that I will go back to cast (WFN) style bullets or maybe give the Barnes XPBs a try.

After much deliberation and many sleepless nights thinking about this I've come to this conclusion: the bullet simply bounced off of him.

After a decent, yet harmless hit in the ?nads. 😂😂😂😂

I would go solids for big stuff but I would like to know if the Swift 280 or 300 might be a good alternative to the 300XTP ?

The best alternative imho.

First change I get to ground check a boar I will also do some post mortem testing followed by a detailed and photographed autopsy.

Just my $0.02, but I have never had good luck with the XTP-MAG bullets. The regular XTP bullets have worked consistently well for me in dropping white tail deer. However, the XTP-MAG bullets have consistently failed when shot from my 454 Casull, first they don't group well out of my gun and second every bullet that I managed to recover has shown jacket separation with minimal expansion. In short I trust the XTP but not the XTP-MAG.

INTERESTING OBSERVATION. MOST OF MY EXPERIENCE WITH 300 gr. XTP's WAS PROBABLY WITH THE REGULAR XTP's AND I HAD NO COMPLAINTS ABOUT THEM. NOT SURE I HAVE EVER USED AN XTP-MAG ON GAME, PRACTICE YES, GAME I DO NOT THINK SO.

I read where a .460 shooter loaded/shot/hunted with the 250 XTP for deer and hogs. Has no complaints and DRT animals.

I have used the 250txp in 45 colt, 454 casull and .50 cal muzzleloader with no issues. Even at upper end 454 levels, it performed great. In my opinion, it is the best of the XTP family of bullet. I've read of forcing cone erosion from using in, but I've experienced no such issues; I guess if it does, I deal with it then.

KRal, can you give more details on possible forcing cone erosion from using 250XTP 45 Colt?

According to some readings, 250xtp is too soft to shoot at the higher velocities of the 454 casull and thus resulted in forcing cone erosion. Whether or not this is true....I don't know. It may have derived in the hay-day's of Metallic Silly-Wet where thousands of rounds were fired using that bullet and thus forever tagged as a bad bullet for those velocities. I do know, that I've shot/shoot the 250xtp at 1750'ish fps from my FA 83 and it's extremely accurate and thumps deer pretty hard. I don't see my self shooting thousands of rounds of that bullet, but if I do and I have forcing cone issues, I'll just suck it up as getting my money's worth from that barrel and get a new one installed (might be a good reason to get an octagon barrel then :D) I'm no expert on this issue, so take it with a grain of salt.

P.S. That load data I'm using was developed by JT; he may or may not know what he's talking 'bout

I do know, that I've shot/shoot the 250xtp at 1750'ish fps from my FA 83 and it's extremely accurate and thumps deer pretty hard. [/quote]

I USED A 250 XTP AT AROUND 1,750 fps ON A 1991 SAFARI BUT IT WAS WAY TOO FRANGIBLE ON LARGER PLAINSGAME SUCH AS KUDU AND RED HARTEBEEST. AS I HAVE PREVIOUSLY POSTED, I HAVE USED THE 250 XTP AT AROUND 1,550 fps AND IT WAS DEVASTATING ON EXOTIC DOES.

I USED A 250 XTP AT AROUND 1,750 fps ON A 1991 SAFARI BUT IT WAS WAY TOO FRANGIBLE ON LARGER PLAINSGAME SUCH AS KUDU AND RED HARTEBEEST. AS I HAVE PREVIOUSLY POSTED, I HAVE USED THE 250 XTP AT AROUND 1,550 fps AND IT WAS DEVASTATING ON EXOTIC DOES.[/quote]

My only experience with that load is on whitetails and it was devistating. If I ever get an opportunity to hunt Africa, it will not be the load I'm using. I'll be using a Partition, A-frame or X bullet.

I've used the 250 grain XTP in my 12 inch Encore 454 Casull on deer and hogs. These are explosive, a one shot stopper. I agree if I were hunting anything bigger I'd go with a heavier bullet.

I have only used the 250XTP on deer and it slams them from a 454 at 1500 fps. I haven't recovered any at this point.

I am launching the 250gr XTP at 2,388 FPS out of my Encore .460 S&W Pistol. Have taken 2 deer with devastating results! Recovered both bullets expanded to about max capability.

Love this combo for whitetail.

Interesting....I've never recovered one from my 454 at 1750fps.

They should work good in that 460. Tougher bullet than those 200?s and youre getting going for sure!

I had a much higher impact velocity and hit on side point of the shoulder bone on both deer. Leading to rapid expansion and shallower penetration. Both bullets were recovered under the hide on the quartering towards deer.

oooh....that prolly hurt.

I'm not trying to hi-jack this thread, but I've only used the 300gr. XTP in 44 caliber and have had zero issues. I use it in my muzzleloader to 1960 FPS and my 44 Mag at just over 1300 FPS. I'm in the process of putting together a 445 Super Mag and plan on trying the same bullet. Deer and hogs have been my main quarry and shots are under 150 yds. with 75/100 yds. being the norm. Mushrooms are textbook when I do find a bullet and have not had any separation issues that I am aware of. Not sure if the .430 diameter vs. .452 diameter has any bearing on it or if it is just an issue with the MAG TIP type itself, but I like the bullet!