hey Trademark, At least he did not use a 10mm

hey Trademark, At least he did not use a 10mm

Old Razor Dobbs just keeps popping up...sorta like the battery rabbit....

trade, just sent an invitation Jay Hunt to join this site so we can hear what he has to say....

Nice buffs. I'm very surprised he did it. I must be one of very few that's had terrible luck with XTPs. They just have never worked for me and it's not I don't know how to shoot.
The one exception is 200 gr. XTP in .45ACP. They out performed every other bullet I tried in it. Go figure.

Nice Buffalo. I hope he joins. Would like to hear details of his hunts.

Correct me if I am wrong but, didn't Lynn Thompson of Cold Steel use the 300 GR XTP's for just about everything?

The faster they go the larger the wound channel.

This a a good point, and one that a lot of cast shooters don't fathom. I see many posts indicating that 900 fps will push a 250 grain Keith slug clean through a deer. That may well be, but the same bullet travelling at 1,200 fps will do a lot more damage along the way.

Regarding XTP's, my experience has been different than what some have suggested here. I have used the .475 400 gr. XTP on a South American water buffalo much heavier than any cape buffalo I've shot, with complete success. I 've used that same one on bison, bull elk, a couple of large bears and several wild boar.
Ive used the 350 gr. XTP from a .500 WE on a couple more bison and boars, once again with no problems.
Regarding the .454 XTP's, there's a big difference between the original version and the thicker jacket Magnum version. That Magnum bullet is much better for anything of significant size, in my opinion, although I personally wouldn't use any .454 on buff, if I had a .475 or .50.
Having said this, I don't take Texas heart shots, and habitually take heart/ lung shots on game, not shoulder shots-- where a hardcast bullet should prove superior on penetration.

This is a good discussion & I hope more join in. There are so many variables when shooting real live game that it's hard to put a definite answer up on exactly what's going to happen once the bullet makes contact with the animal. The construction of the bullet, the velocity, the distance, the angle & of course the size of the animal & where it's hit.
None of these things things can be totally controlled in the field although we always try. Many times these discussions go straight to the top, the very biggest animals & when that happens you narrow bullet selection down to only 3-4 premium bullets, period. Of course others will work, just like a 9mm will kill a Grizzly in Alaska or a 22 LR will kill a Black Bear.
If we drop down to the main stream of big game hunting with a six gun in North America then we allow a lot of different bullets to come into play & that's where most of us hang out.
Probably 75% of the game taken by lower 48 six gunners is deer, either muleys or white tails. The other 25% would be hogs,
exotics, pronghorn, bears, elk, lions & moose. Maybe I've missed something but that pretty much covers most of it.
For these animals "most" bullets of 250 grs or above will handle anything mentioned with proper bullet placement.
I've taken all of the animals above & in 50 years I've recovered exactly ONE bullet. Speaking of my own experience I'll say if there's one place where guys can go wrong it's with velocity. That is they tend to over drive a bullet beyond it's design limits & the bullet lets go.
This is just my experience, some one else may see it different, no problem. A six gun doesn't need top end velocity to kill big game at 40-50-60 yds with good shot placement. For me that's mostly been heart/lungs but sometimes shoulders because here in the west you seldom get a flat broadside shot. It's usually uphill or downhill or at an angle, not much flat ground in the western US.
Bullet seperations, bent bullets, over expansion, bullet blow up, I've never had it, not even once & never seen it once from my hand gun friends, even on bears, elk & moose.
My only recovered bullet was this last fall on a smallish buck at 64 yds with a soft cast HP bullet, something that I seldom use. It was a 240 gr 44 & only 10 grs of Unique. I know that this bullet would have blown up if I have leaned on it hard at 44 magnum velocity but because it was much slower in my 6 1/2 Ruger OM flat top it did something totally unexpected, it stayed together for several inches. He was facing me almost straight on & I hit the big shoulder joint right on the point, this would have blown up a hot 44 HP without question. It went through the pulverized joint, one lung, the intestines & was laying up against the left hip bone & if I remember correctly weighed 85 grs. He covered maybe 15 yds, I was totally shocked the bullet penetrated that far because of the HP & the shoulder joint. The key was, I didn't over drive it. But we never know, that shot could have been 125 yds that day, I still would have taken it but a hotter load would have made more sense, or picking up the 10 1/2" 44 laying at my feet with a 4X Leupold & 21 grs of 2400 & a Keith bullet, nice to have options.

Dick

Actually I think it's an advantage to load hot if the shooter & the bullet are on the same page. It's when the load is too much for the shooter (recoil) or the load is too hot for the bullet that things get out of whack.
Faster, flatter & hitting harder makes sense if the shooter is up to the task & builds correct loads, I've never stated other wise. I do question some one building loads they can't handle or using the wrong bullet at high speed, that's just asking for trouble.
Good loads & good shooting kills a lot of game with a six gun.

Dick

Great animal. And a awesome successful hunt.

There you go guys. That?s how you respond to something like this.

Not with the...in a nutshell.

What an idiot for using xtp....

Or how many times did the ph have to shoot it after you used a sub par bullet....

The horse named opinion is way too high in here.

VERY NICE CAPE's, BUT, IMHO, VERY POOR CHOICE OF BULLET, WOULD LIKE MORE INFO ON THE HUNTS, WHAT IT TOOK TO GET THEM DOWN, etc. BTW, NOT TOO MANY PLACES THAT YOU GET 2 CAPE's ON LICENSE, WHERE WERE THEY TAKEN?

THE POST OF THE 2 BUFFS WAS NOT DONE BY THE HUNTER BUT BY JAMES FROM JERSEY, AND WAS ENTITILED TO PROVOKE SOME COMMENTS RE THE HUNTER'S CHOICE OF BULLETS. I WENT BACK AND READ ALL OF THE POSTS AND ALL OF THE ONES INVOLVING MR. HUNT WERE APPROPRIATE. HE RECEIVED MANY CONGRAGULATIONS, BUT AT THE SAME TIME THE TOPIC DID PROVOKE COMMENT AND WONDER OVER HIS CHOICE OF BULLETS. I DO NOT DO FACEBOOK SO DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THE FORUM THE TOPIC CAME FROM, BUT HERE I THINK WE LIKE TO KNOW ABOUT LOADS, PERFORMANCE, FAILURES AND SUCCESSES. IF EXPERIENCE IS THE BEST TEACHER, THIS IS A GOOD PLACE TO SHARE IT.

jdhunt3


I had one of the gunsmith at Freedom arms tell me the reason they quite making bullets or should I say selling them is Hornady was making a great bullets for their 454's. IE: 300 xtp Mag.

Sincerely
Mark

jdhunt3

Congrats on two great buffs!

My question on weather the PH shot or not was not meant to offend but was meant as a question! I apologize if it offend you or anyone else. It was not my intension. I am thrilled as I am sure you are the PH never fired. All too often you hear about Guides and PH's being to fast on the trigger.

I had one of the gunsmith at Freedom arms tell me the reason they quite making bullets or should I say selling them is Hornady was making a great bullets for their 454's. IE: 300 xtp Mag.

Sincerely
Mark

What other animals did you take?

If I may inquire, at what velocity did you launch those XTP Mag's?

Well, glory be!! You mean the Witch Hunt isn?t all encompassing?!?

Good for you. You must assuredly have experienced an anomaly according to some on this site.

I don?t think I am able to believe you. The internet says so.

I don?t think I stuttered.

Didnt accuse you of stuttering. Just misreading the intent and words others have written.

Well, glory be!! You mean the Witch Hunt isn?t all encompassing?!?

Good for you. You must assuredly have experienced an anomaly according to some on this site.

I don?t think I am able to believe you. The internet says so.

I spoke to Hornady and they recommended their XTP-MAG bullet as did Freedom Arms. Both said they?d shot plenty of buffalo with them.

I had one of the gunsmith at Freedom arms tell me the reason they quite making bullets or should I say selling them is Hornady was making a great bullets for their 454's. IE: 300 xtp Mag.

It's cool to see the bigger animals, but the majority of us don't do that on a regular basis.

I know Freedom Arms gets ton`s of feedback from handgun hunters on how their guns and ammo they used had performed and found it interesting to read the above... I would think for a company like FA`s to make any recommendation they must done a little research into the numbers found them positive before they would commit... This does not mean the XTP is a perfect bullet because there is no such thing but for the 20 failures someone had with XTP`s...there is someone else with 20(maybe 19) successful hunts... As with people...you can find a little good in everyone if you look hard enough

I agree this is one of the best threads we've ever discussed here on the forum. It shows once again that there are lots of variables in our sport & that one time a bullet can succeed & the next time it can fail, even if the animal is smaller than the one where it was successful, go figure!
Maybe it's the angle, maybe the point of impact, mostly I think it goes back to velocity, just my thoughts but I'll give my reason for it.
On this Buffalo hunt the first 2 shots were at 75 yds with a muzzle velocity of just over 1600 fps. Not sure of the impact velocity but you math majors can figure it pretty quick. Maybe, just maybe that had something to do with the success of those 2 shots, just my thoughts.
Going back to one of Max's replies earlier on using a 400 gr hard cast at the Bovine Bash, he said it blew up on impact at close range, I'm not really surprised that it did, that's asking a lot of any bullet that's not pure copper, etc. Again, here's another maybe, what if that 400 gr hard cast had been going 200 fps slower on impact, would it have preformed better, I don't know, you guys have a lot more experience on those big animals than I do, I have no experience on them but every bullet except for the big solids has it's limits.
An XTP at the muzzle might have blown up just like that hard cast but at 75 yds had slowed down to where it was within the design limits of that bullet.
All of this is just asking questions, but velocity plays a factor in how a bullet fails or succeeds & this latest thread has really been a good read, I've enjoyed it very much.

Dick

Finding out those velocity levels and what point the bullets work well in and which bullets give the most margin of error is the question i seek an answer to.

I would question the veracity of that claim as frankly the old FA bullets were of a much higher quality than the XTP. I?m sorry they are no longer produced. I have to call FA this week and I?ll ask them about why they no longer produce this bullet. I will bet it was a financial decision.

Why don't bullet makers have published recommended speeds for each species? I know its not an absolute, but wouldn't that put a template down to kinda prevent some of the bullet failures? I know there are a lot of "what ifs" in this, but after all, it is a hypothetical question.

When FA stop producing their bullets Winchester picked them up.

Granted there are few bullets that deliver EVERY time, but I strive to find the one that will work like it is supposed to consistently. Simple concept.

Too many what ifs. And you couldn?t possibly replicate every animal in a lab. They publish or will provide recommended minimum and maximum speeds for general use.

Well, stand tall on that soap box and enjoy a cool glass of disappointment. Life is full of it and variables don?t help.

I believe they have been searching for the magic bullet since the Kennedy Assasination. Let me know when you find it. The one that does everything you want to everything you want.

We may never find it. But, the search is fun anyway.

Hey Zee.... Watch out....your experience is showing

Hey Zee.... Watch out....your experience is showing

However, one wonders when a recommendation is given on an expandable for cape buff why wouldnt someone with tons of experience mention the aframes.

This thread gets my vote for thread of the decade. Great stuff from those highly regarded!

DICK: I HAD A 300 gr FA BULLET BREAKUP ON THE POINT OF A KUDU's SHOULDER. THEY WERE VERY HARD BULLETS BUT HARD IS ALSO BRITTLE. THE SHOT SHUD HAVE BEEN A KILLER BUT THE BULLET DID NOT MAKE IT TO THE VITALS AND IT TOOK SOME TRACKING AND FOLLOW UP TO FINALLY ANCHOR HIM, AND IS ONE OF THE REASONS I GAVE UP ON THE FA BULLETS FOR BIG GAME HUNTING. THEY WORK GREAT ON WHITETAILS THOUGH AND WERE VERY ACCURATE BULLETS.