Didn't say I didn't care. I said it had nothing to do with what I consider a failure or not. The point being, a bullet can do exactly what I wanted and expected but the critter runs 100yds before giving up. Likewise, a bullet can be an utter failure and the critter drop on the spot.

Raptor.....i got into the bullet performance as i think most who have by having a failure. Some may decide its not a failure but after using a bullet that i had many successful hunts with. I made a great shot on cow elk and followed it with several more right in the boiler room. Elk continued to run. It died but the end result but at the end of a deadfall that i had to back out an elk up nearly 1000 feet of elevation over logs. It was hell and i saw my bullets that had served me well before suddenly not opened and bent and some blow to peices. It caused me lots of work. I decided i needed to study the issue. One i didnt know needed studying when hunting deer and other similiar game under the 200lb threshold. More questions were raised when guiding for oryx and then it got more
Critical when the discussion turned towards cape buffs. Thats how it started for me, at least.


On a side note. I Really think this is a great forum. I think 99% of people here would get along really well when they get to know each other. Lately things have gotten testy amongst people that would usually get along well. Or worse, have so in the past. I would hope everyone could be mindful of that fact and that when things get stirred up in the forum ?cauldron? theres usually someone stirring the pot with a stick. A stick That they have hands on both sides of while stirring.

I just have a real problem with folks wanting to alienate, divide and conquer over friggin' bullets.

Personally, I've always been fascinated by what bullets do to critters. Even as a kid hunting with .22's and air guns.

Since we're obviously not doing it right, which was gleaned from Zee's few hours spent as a guest on a several day hunt, I anxiously await the results of his buffalo cut `n shoot.

Funny that through all of these discussion the excellent Speer Gold Dot (Deep Curl) hasn't been brought up. I have taken one cow elk with that bullet & it worked great. Never used an XTP.
I know it's a bit softer that some of the other bullets, but still it's a dandy at 270 grs & at magnum velocities.

Dick

I often wonder that too. The Gold Dot/Deep Curl is a much better bullet than the XTP. I've driven them fast enough to blow apart but the core material always remains bonded to the jacket. The 270gr .44 is particularly good.

I've shot the .475 version of the Speer Deep Curl (400 gr) out of my 475/350 Rem Mag. The bullet so far has given great expansion and excellent wight retention. I'm pushing them over 1,800 fps...no problems...I've used the 400 gr XTP (475) out of the same pistol...I don't recover bullets on deer, but, in my case/opinion..velocity is king. JD Jones used to write in the Sixgunner that the 400 gr 475 XTP required at least 1,650 fps out of his 475 JDJ to reliably give expansion...they are pretty hard bullets (400 gr .475 XTP's)

400 gr Speer Deep Curl out of my 475/350 Mag Single Shot

Recovered 400 gr .475 XTP out of my 475/350 Mag Single Shot

How fast were the Speer/XTP bullets going out of your 475/350?????
Just ordered a cannelure tool from K.Knight with the intension of rolling a crimp groove on some Speer/Xtp bullets made for the 50AE to see how they perform from my 500WE... May turn out to be just right for deer/boar... When I run 400gr bullet in the 1200fps range
from my FA`s its gets your attention fast.... I don`t need that power for what I`ll be hunting but I also don`t want to leave the gun in the safe...

1,837 fps at about two feet from the muzzle...and as my video on The Handgun Hunting Forum on Facebook, it kicks just a little....hahahahaha

Every bullet type has some different characteristics in different calibers. Aframes in 45 cal are much tougher than in 44 cal for example. I think the 300gr 44 mag bullet is vastly superior to the 300?s in 45 cal. I think it was you, franchise, that was commenting that jd jones or some gun builder had tested the 400 hr xtp 475 bullet and found it started to reliably expand at around 1600fps which mirrors what ive seen and that is the 475 cal xtps are tough tough bullets and dont reliably expand at 480 and 475 linebaugh velocities. It may and it may not. Ibe had the exact opposite with 240xtp mag at 454 velocities. Some great mushrooms and great explosions. Ots an interesting science experiment for sure.

The .475 version is definitely tough..so is the 500 gr XTP FP in the. 500..The gentleman from SC who produces the B&M line of cartridges uses it in his custom rifles and vaves about them...he used them on Cape and Water Buffalo..every bullet is a little different

I shot that cannon of yours and you really don`t know what a hard kicking handgun is about until shoot something like that

I havent seen that. I would love too!

X2 for sure!!

Only critter I ever took with an xtp of any sort was a deer. Used Hornady cartridges right off the shelf through my very first hunting handgun-- a 460 S&W XVR.

Knowing what I know now, I would have bought a different revolver as my first hunting handgun, but that "scam bullet" did it's job that day. I went home with a dead critter. It didn't even take a step.

I believe that bullet was made so Smith and Wesson could say they had the fastest, biggest, baddest.... Whatever. And admittedly, I bought into it. But now that I'm older and more experienced in this way of life, in my opinion, the 460 doesn't really show it's ability till you get to the heavy bullets. My second 460 was a single shot, and it loved the 335gr hardcast, and hit like a hammer.

Anyway, guess I got a little long winded, but that's my limited experience with the xtp bullets, and it worked very well that day.

In some calibers and weights ive seen nothing but success out of xtps. Others as low as 50/50.

My 460 is at its best with 300-325 gr aframes for sure.

Tradmark-- this talking about my old 460, and hearing of yours, makes me want another one!! Maybe someday...

Haha. Maybe one day we shall tAckle
Nasty critters together. If u dont get another one i have 2!!

HAHA!!! That'd be fun for sure. And yeah, I'm sure I'll have another one some day. Got other irons in the fire right now though.

Oh yeah. I hear ya. Ive got many irons in many fires. I like all the shooting sports.

Sixshot, I agree with you, I didn't mean to give the wrong impression. My "best" shot is always a one shot DOA kill; and when I achieve that I feel that I did my job correctly.




Yeah z you deleted it (got scared?) or maybe Gary did. Good idea to get rid of what you posted as it could of gotten you banned IMO. Too bad someone didn't quote you on it.

It wasn?t me.

You are barking up the wrong tree about Zee.
He is not wired the way that you questioned/suggested to him concerning, "fear."

Im not sure what post was ban-worthy, i may not be paying enough attention. I dont mind controversial posts. I do think that anything said that leads to even better testing is valuable, as long as it is applied evenly across the board which is whysome look at some posts as an attack. AS LONG AS ITsa critique for improved information its good but should be applied across the board consistently
WHAT I Think we should all worried about is people who try and start controversy between members for whatever reason playing both ends against the middle. I think many of us have unwittingly been victims of this already😠

I have a recovered Speer Gold Dot 158 grain fired from my 357 S&W revolver at 1400 FPS that sows zero expansion, looks unfired except fir the rifling marks.

In my experience what the animal does after the shot may or may not indicate good bullet performance. I?ve seen deer run with the heart and lungs destroyed and the offside shoulder nearly blown off.

John, that's the crazy thing about bullets that I don't think we'll ever solve. You mention heart & lungs destroyed plus the off shoulder, so that bullet had to work extremely well, yet the animal runs off. That could just be that animals will to live, and the next animal drops on the spot from less performance, it happens & we can't explain it.
But I don't know if we can blame that on the bullet if it does everything you just described, I've seen the same thing but can't explain it either. It's the biggest X factor in hunting & probably always will be because of angles, impact, velocity, etc. just such a crazy mix of events once that bullet leaves the barrel & yet fascinating with the end result.
Just like the 357 Gold Dot at 1400 fps with no expansion, that bullet at that speed should give some expansion on a Potato!

Dick

Micheal has never used the XTP on buffalo of any kind not out of a rifle or handgun.

You summed tit up rather well.

I know Michael and he absolutely doesn?t and hasn?t used XTPs on any bovines. The CEB solids are his design.

I hope Bud Rummel chimes in, but he used the 500 grain .500 Smith XTPs and wasn?t happy at all with them on Bison and I believe water buffalo.

I will tell you without a doubt that if you go to the B&M website and look at the 50 Alaskan B&M and the B&M Long..he has used them on Wildebeest, zebra, Eland, and Giraffe...he recommends them for big bears and lion too. He (Michael) from Conway SC did 2 bullet reviews on Midway

I was mistaken on the Large Dangerous Bovines, but he sure likes the 500 gr XTP FP...

Yep..the article I read was that Layne Simpson was taking the 50 B&M Alaskan to Africa and thought it would work good on the Cape Buffalo..my mistake, but Michael from Conway, SC (owner of that rifle company) certainly likes the bullet..Hornady 500 gr XTP FP

I asked Micheal in bullet tech earlier to day. If you are a member then you can read his reply, I was rather sure that he didn?t use any XTP?s on any large game at all.

Well guys, I just want you to read his bullet review of the XTP on Midway...I don't know him....I was just going by his review....read it and see what you think

It sounds like we?re talking about different Michaels.

[img]I would like to add an update review for this bullet. In April I had tested the bullet up to 1875 fps in wet print with perfect results. I have since that time increased the velocity to 2100 fps in a new rifle cartridge--50 B&M Long. This has been tested in wet print with 100% success. The bullet holds together, expands, and penetrates to around 20" at this velocity. However, the main reason for this update is the success I had recently in Africa with this bullet on wildebeest, zebra, eland, and giraffe. I used my mid size 50 B&M and the original velocity of 1875 fps. This bullet performed perfectly and of all the soft point bullets used on this trip, the 500 Hornady really showed it's stuff! It literally knocked the socks off everything, perfect performance, bullet did not break up, or shed jackets, and retained 80% + of the original weight! We are very close to having a perfect .500 diameter bullet for velocities from 1500 to 2100 fps! This is a great choice for the big bears, lion, and any soft skinned dangerous game, and of course other game such as elk & Africa's big antelope. It is a hammer! Thank You Hornady! Was this review helpful to you? 27 5[/img]

I?ll put you in touch with him if you want to talk to him.

Sorry guys, it must be a different guy. The above post is from Michael from Conway, SC...he makes another review too...Sorry for the confusion