cape buff vs XTP
#190335
03/12/2018 7:16 PM
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jamesfromjersey
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Franchise brought to my attention a post on Facebooks "Handgun Hunting and Speciality Pistols" with two photos showing a Mr. Jay Hunt and the two Cape buff he shot with what looks like a Freedom Arms in 454 Casull using a handload with a 300 grain XTP Mag bullet over 30.0grs H-110 for a 1609fps MV...
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190336
03/12/2018 7:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,861
Franchise
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Two big, beautiful Cape Buffalo!
The Eyes are Useless, When The Mind Is Blind
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190337
03/12/2018 7:27 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
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tradmark
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No doubt they can work, no doubt i can post videos of failures on animals as small as corsican rams and follow with good results as well. Its all about how consistent the product is. 100%, 80%, or 50/50? Thats the only knock on em. I believe doc rogers had a statement that if he recovers a bullet on whitetail he wont use em on bigger animals or something to that effect. Obviously worked on those buffs. Itd be interesting to see the bullets pulled out of the animal
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: tradmark]
#190338
03/12/2018 7:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
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trade, just sent an invitation Jay Hunt to join this site so we can hear what he has to say... Otherwise, congratulations on two fine Cape buff Jay Hunt....
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190339
03/12/2018 7:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,861
Franchise
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I just thought this gentleman killed two fine trophies 😉😜 I was impressed by their size 💪🏼👍
The Eyes are Useless, When The Mind Is Blind
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: Franchise]
#190340
03/12/2018 7:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
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hey Trademark, At least he did not use a 10mm
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190341
03/12/2018 7:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 161
MrMcPorkchop
member
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member
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hey Trademark, At least he did not use a 10mm
You beat me to it!
Choot em!
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: Franchise]
#190342
03/12/2018 7:52 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
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I would love to hear what he has to say and i thought congrats are implied but if not ill say it now, congrats! My response was more geared towards the title of the thread but i digress. Im busily going bw rooms. Nice looking buff anyhow he should be extra glad he got some buff before south africa is destroyed and we wont have easy access to handgunning cape buff.
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: Franchise]
#190344
03/12/2018 8:02 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
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HahHahhahaha james. Very true. Props to anyone that can stand in and shoot those big animals. Deer hunting has never been the same
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: tradmark]
#190345
03/12/2018 8:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,821
45MAN
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VERY NICE CAPE's, BUT, IMHO, VERY POOR CHOICE OF BULLET, WOULD LIKE MORE INFO ON THE HUNTS, WHAT IT TOOK TO GET THEM DOWN, etc. BTW, NOT TOO MANY PLACES THAT YOU GET 2 CAPE's ON LICENSE, WHERE WERE THEY TAKEN?
"ADAPT OR DIE". I USE ALL CAPS, NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS AN OLD HABIT FROM MY ARMY DAYS, PLUS IT IS EASIER TO TYPE AND READ.
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: tradmark]
#190346
03/12/2018 8:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
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This one should make Razor happy cause he used a Dan Wesson 357....
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190347
03/12/2018 8:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
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Rey, I`am pretty sure Mozambique....
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190348
03/12/2018 8:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,057
Gary
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One thing to keep in mind when hunting dangerous game is the opportunity to put in multiple shots. It's not too bad in open country but get in the thick stuff where you can't see but 40 or 50 yards and it turns into a whole different ball game.
You can't wait any longer. Join the NRA and start writing your Congressmen and Senators.
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190349
03/12/2018 10:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
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hey Trademark, At least he did not use a 10mm Kinda like these two big, beautiful Cape buffalo? LOL!!
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: Whitworth]
#190350
03/13/2018 1:03 AM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,596
racksmasher1
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Awesome trophy?s all around, I?m sure Razor dropped a few mags.
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190353
03/13/2018 1:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
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Old Razor Dobbs just keeps popping up...sorta like the battery rabbit.... .... After reading past posts I`am sure that his 10mm buff kills have been talked about by dedicated handgun hunters the world over.... his PR man must have been paid a bonus for this one. I wonder how many 10`s CZ has sold since the video first hit the air....
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190354
03/13/2018 1:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
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Old Razor Dobbs just keeps popping up...sorta like the battery rabbit.... .... After reading past posts I`am sure that his 10mm buff kills have been talked about by dedicated handgun hunters the world over.... his PR man must have been paid a bonus for this one. I wonder how many 10`s CZ has sold since the video first hit the air.... Dan Wesson is a sponsor. Kinda the whole point of him using one. Wasn?t it you who dragged him and his trusty 10 into this discussion? LOL!
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: Whitworth]
#190355
03/13/2018 1:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
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no pictures though.... lol....lol lol ps- that`s why I said his PR man was paid a bonus
Last edited by jamesfromjersey; 03/13/2018 2:03 AM.
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190356
03/13/2018 2:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
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What do you mean? I posted two of his photos above.
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: Whitworth]
#190357
03/13/2018 2:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
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Whit, It seems no matter how hard we try we just can`t get rid of Razor.... PS and I like the guy
Last edited by jamesfromjersey; 03/13/2018 2:12 AM.
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190364
03/13/2018 1:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 543
ruger4570
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Nice Buffalo. I hope he joins. Would like to hear details of his hunts.
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190366
03/13/2018 3:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155
Gregg Richter
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trade, just sent an invitation Jay Hunt to join this site so we can hear what he has to say.... Good idea, James. Chances are if he was a member he would not have used XTP's.
At any rate, congratulations on some great handgun trophies. Murphy must have been looking the other way.
Or else somebody told him the odds.
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#190367
03/13/2018 3:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,048
wvhitman
old hand
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old hand
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Nice buffs. I'm very surprised he did it. I must be one of very few that's had terrible luck with XTPs. They just have never worked for me and it's not I don't know how to shoot. The one exception is 200 gr. XTP in .45ACP. They out performed every other bullet I tried in it. Go figure.
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: wvhitman]
#190370
03/13/2018 5:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,097
jwp475
old hand
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old hand
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Nice buffs. I'm very surprised he did it. I must be one of very few that's had terrible luck with XTPs. They just have never worked for me and it's not I don't know how to shoot. The one exception is 200 gr. XTP in .45ACP. They out performed every other bullet I tried in it. Go figure. I?ve had good luck with the 185 and 230 XTP?s in 45 ACP+P and 45 Super.
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: ruger4570]
#190371
03/13/2018 6:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
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Nice Buffalo. I hope he joins. Would like to hear details of his hunts. me too........
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190378
03/13/2018 8:53 PM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 24
Coloradoyaler
stranger
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stranger
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They are nice buffs!
What I am interested to hear is how many shots the PH made if any.
Regards Mark
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: Coloradoyaler]
#190390
03/14/2018 12:17 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 818
sixshot
old hand
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old hand
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Those are great trophies with any gun & to do it with Hornady XTP's is almost beyond belief! Good for him even if it took a whole cylinder full. I know most people would have used something else but he made it happen, congratulations! I think many guys plug different products in hopes of getting a sponsor, nothing new about that game. Also, it sounds like South Africa is starting to get pretty nasty, would like to go again but don't want to be in a position to have to shoot my way out of there! Thoughts?
Dick
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: sixshot]
#190392
03/14/2018 5:30 AM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
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I am contemplating on my odds of having to shoot my way out this summer. Havent fully decided yet. Doc, you arent the only one that has had bad results. I was talking to my eldest son about this and his response was that some guys have had unprotected sex with locals in liberia and dont get aids but it doesnt mean you should try it.
That said, dick, which bullets do you think people are trying to get a sponsor with? Im just wanting to get what you are saying, do u think people use some substandard bullets to get a sponsor or are you talking more about the premium bullets.
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: tradmark]
#190393
03/14/2018 7:09 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 818
sixshot
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Wasn't referring to just bullets, guys do it with scopes, guns, clothes, etc. In this case as far as bullets, yes he made it work but almost all of us would agree there are much better choices out there for Cape Buffalo. Me, being stubborn would use a cast bullet & most others would use a premium copper/solid bullet but the guy did make it work twice. I hope the guy jumps in and tells us the whole story, it has to be quite fascinating. He looks quite happy & they look quite dead.
Dick
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: sixshot]
#190394
03/14/2018 9:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 649
dhom
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Correct me if I am wrong but, didn't Lynn Thompson of Cold Steel use the 300 GR XTP's for just about everything?
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: dhom]
#190396
03/14/2018 11:55 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,725
500WE
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I believe you're right, Dhom. Regarding XTP's, my experience has been different than what some have suggested here. I have used the .475 400 gr. XTP on a South American water buffalo much heavier than any cape buffalo I've shot, with complete success. I 've used that same one on bison, bull elk, a couple of large bears and several wild boar. Ive used the 350 gr. XTP from a .500 WE on a couple more bison and boars, once again with no problems. Regarding the .454 XTP's, there's a big difference between the original version and the thicker jacket Magnum version. That Magnum bullet is much better for anything of significant size, in my opinion, although I personally wouldn't use any .454 on buff, if I had a .475 or .50. Having said this, I don't take Texas heart shots, and habitually take heart/ lung shots on game, not shoulder shots-- where a hardcast bullet should prove superior on penetration.
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: dhom]
#190399
03/14/2018 1:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
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Correct me if I am wrong but, didn't Lynn Thompson of Cold Steel use the 300 GR XTP's for just about everything? Lynn used the 300 grain Hornady factory loads in .44 Mag in Australia. Keep in mind these are really mild loads that only clock around 1,100 fps. They have a tendency not to open and act more like a solid (and not a very good solid at that). I talked to Lynn's outfitter after this hunt and he was uncomfortable with Lynn's choice, but told me they worked because they so often don't open. Combine that with Lynn's impeccable shot placement and you have a recipe for success. It is important to note that Lynn used CorBon Penetrators and FA 300 grain bullets in .454 in Africa.
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: Whitworth]
#190407
03/14/2018 4:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 818
sixshot
old hand
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old hand
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I also noticed on many of Lynn's Buffalo that the shots were complete pass through's so what does that tell us about needing more velocity than 1,100 fps on really big animals? Just a question, not an argument.
Dick
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: sixshot]
#190412
03/14/2018 6:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
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No, good question dick. Two caveats, i was actually looking to book a hunt with his outfitter right before he died in australia and asked just that and he told me that the bullets werent in danger of passing thru when hitting bone on the way in and out. Some were not very fast kills and they were cull biffs. Matt had told me that he was getting a 454 with some appropriate bullets since i would have been shooting one or two large trophy buffs. I didnt have the time to cull a bunch in the same way lynn did. That said, no 300 gr 44 mag bullet at 1100 fpshas ever been in danger of exiting on any of the animals at the bovine bash.
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: tradmark]
#190413
03/14/2018 6:37 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
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Another problem is that there is a big misnomer that the bullets from handguns just punch a caliber sized hole. The faster they go the larger the wound channel. Often times significantly larger and a quicker death.
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: tradmark]
#190415
03/14/2018 6:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,608
s4s4u
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The faster they go the larger the wound channel. This a a good point, and one that a lot of cast shooters don't fathom. I see many posts indicating that 900 fps will push a 250 grain Keith slug clean through a deer. That may well be, but the same bullet travelling at 1,200 fps will do a lot more damage along the way.
Rod, too.
Short cuts often lead to long recoveries.
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: s4s4u]
#190416
03/14/2018 7:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
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The faster they go the larger the wound channel. This a a good point, and one that a lot of cast shooters don't fathom. I see many posts indicating that 900 fps will push a 250 grain Keith slug clean through a deer. That may well be, but the same bullet travelling at 1,200 fps will do a lot more damage along the way. It will. You have to hold the speeds down for cast bullets because the material can't hold up to very high impact velocities.
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: 500WE]
#190422
03/14/2018 9:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
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Regarding XTP's, my experience has been different than what some have suggested here. I have used the .475 400 gr. XTP on a South American water buffalo much heavier than any cape buffalo I've shot, with complete success. I 've used that same one on bison, bull elk, a couple of large bears and several wild boar. Ive used the 350 gr. XTP from a .500 WE on a couple more bison and boars, once again with no problems. Regarding the .454 XTP's, there's a big difference between the original version and the thicker jacket Magnum version. That Magnum bullet is much better for anything of significant size, in my opinion, although I personally wouldn't use any .454 on buff, if I had a .475 or .50. Having said this, I don't take Texas heart shots, and habitually take heart/ lung shots on game, not shoulder shots-- where a hardcast bullet should prove superior on penetration. Ken, Your much better then I when writing one`s thoughts...
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190425
03/14/2018 10:56 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 818
sixshot
old hand
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old hand
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This is a good discussion & I hope more join in. There are so many variables when shooting real live game that it's hard to put a definite answer up on exactly what's going to happen once the bullet makes contact with the animal. The construction of the bullet, the velocity, the distance, the angle & of course the size of the animal & where it's hit. None of these things things can be totally controlled in the field although we always try. Many times these discussions go straight to the top, the very biggest animals & when that happens you narrow bullet selection down to only 3-4 premium bullets, period. Of course others will work, just like a 9mm will kill a Grizzly in Alaska or a 22 LR will kill a Black Bear. If we drop down to the main stream of big game hunting with a six gun in North America then we allow a lot of different bullets to come into play & that's where most of us hang out. Probably 75% of the game taken by lower 48 six gunners is deer, either muleys or white tails. The other 25% would be hogs, exotics, pronghorn, bears, elk, lions & moose. Maybe I've missed something but that pretty much covers most of it. For these animals "most" bullets of 250 grs or above will handle anything mentioned with proper bullet placement. I've taken all of the animals above & in 50 years I've recovered exactly ONE bullet. Speaking of my own experience I'll say if there's one place where guys can go wrong it's with velocity. That is they tend to over drive a bullet beyond it's design limits & the bullet lets go. This is just my experience, some one else may see it different, no problem. A six gun doesn't need top end velocity to kill big game at 40-50-60 yds with good shot placement. For me that's mostly been heart/lungs but sometimes shoulders because here in the west you seldom get a flat broadside shot. It's usually uphill or downhill or at an angle, not much flat ground in the western US. Bullet seperations, bent bullets, over expansion, bullet blow up, I've never had it, not even once & never seen it once from my hand gun friends, even on bears, elk & moose. My only recovered bullet was this last fall on a smallish buck at 64 yds with a soft cast HP bullet, something that I seldom use. It was a 240 gr 44 & only 10 grs of Unique. I know that this bullet would have blown up if I have leaned on it hard at 44 magnum velocity but because it was much slower in my 6 1/2 Ruger OM flat top it did something totally unexpected, it stayed together for several inches. He was facing me almost straight on & I hit the big shoulder joint right on the point, this would have blown up a hot 44 HP without question. It went through the pulverized joint, one lung, the intestines & was laying up against the left hip bone & if I remember correctly weighed 85 grs. He covered maybe 15 yds, I was totally shocked the bullet penetrated that far because of the HP & the shoulder joint. The key was, I didn't over drive it. But we never know, that shot could have been 125 yds that day, I still would have taken it but a hotter load would have made more sense, or picking up the 10 1/2" 44 laying at my feet with a 4X Leupold & 21 grs of 2400 & a Keith bullet, nice to have options.
Dick
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Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: sixshot]
#190426
03/14/2018 11:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,006
Zee
Shooting Expert
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Shooting Expert
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I like speed. I like stomping the peddle to the floor. I like hitting the wall.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
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1 registered members (Okie Hunter),
48
guests, and 2
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
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