Many hear know Hunlee have nice 45-70 barrle for Contender!!!!Said barrel is barrel that measure out at 17 and some extra with brake to reduce recoil so it not hurt Hunlee hand!!!!!Allso Hunlee have nice 2-6xpower Bushnell!!!!!Now today hunlee go to range with 300 grain bullit load up with IMr 4198 but group size is much to big for Hunlee!!!!!Hunlee is asking for help with loading up 45-70 for best accuracey with 300 or 359 grain bullit!!!!Hunting deer will be good for Hunlee this year ifin said 45-70 barrel deside to shoot better than what it did today!!!!Maybe hunlee need better powder and bullit?????Maybe Hunlee make mistake in buying said 45-70 barrle butt price was rite for Hunlee!!!!!Maybe youin 45-70 Contender shooter out there will help Hunlee????Many thankyou from Hunlee and Hunlee wish everyone a good life and happyness!!!!!

hunlee

Try a 300 gr Hornady HP #4500 with 30.0 gr of 2400 Large Rifle primer OAL 2.550

If you like the 400 gr drop to 27.0 gr of 2400

What size groups are you getting? Are you shooting from the bench to test accuracy? I have had good results with H4198. I have not tried IMR4198, but Hodgdon shows that its pressures run higher. Their burn rates are close, but the velocity and pressures are different between the two powders. Did you start with the minimum charge the data lists and work your way up to find a charge your barrel likes?

Yes Hunlee use start load and work up butt Hunlee not to top load yet!!!!!Hunlee find that best group size from bench at 100 yard is round 5 inch butt Hunlee want better!!!!!375 Windchester of Hunlee will shoot one inch and some time better at 100 yard so this is what Hunlee want from 45-70!!!!!Hunlee stilll shoot 45-70 evin more!!!!!Many thankyou!!!!!

hunlee

I shoot the Sierra 300grn JHP in my 45-70 SSK, 15" Contender. I use IMR4198, 37 grns. I think the main thing on a 45-70 is the crimp. I can change my point of impact and group size by changing the crimp. I use a med crimp. Not a real pronounced rolled over edge. Just enough to see the crimp by eye. You might have to play with the amount you use to get the best results.
This is not a real hot load. Just enough to get 1400 fps and it shoots 1.5" at 100yds consistantly. I have taken two deer with this load. One at 85 yds through both shoulders. Bang/flop but hard on meat. The other was at 110 yds double lung. It traveled about 15 yds in circle and fell.
You should get at least another 100 fps from your longer barrel.
Also I found that my best groups and the least amount of fouling came from Fed 210 primers.
Good luck.

Mike

I use 400 gr. Speer bullets mostly, but have also used a very few 350 gr. bullets from other manufacturers. I prefer the 400 Speer, it's a great bullet in all my 45-70"s. I highly recommend IMR 3031 and CCI BR2 primers. Work up carefully (like you were very very carefully planning to father another child )

I sent mine back to the factory. From what I have been told there were a lot of 44 and 45’s that had bad chambers. Particularly on the 45-70. I have had two of those barrels and didn’t have any luck with either. If you send it back they should replace it with a “Custom Shop” barrel. I sent them a couple of targets that I had basically showing what type of groups I am capable of shooting. The down side is that the customer service stinks. If you send your barrel in all you get is a piece of paper in the mail stating that they received your barrel. The next thing you get is a barrel months later.

Oh yes… I was also told by TC that if the barrel was replaced that I could request any caliber that they make as a replacement. I requested a 375 so I know that it will be a “Custom Shop.” If I ever send another one back I will ask for a 30-30 AKL or a 223 AKL. EG. Something not factory!

Hawkeye is right about the crimp. I use a Lee Factory Crimp and put a firm crimp on all my rounds. 1.5" 100 yd groups are common with 300 gr bullets in my barrel. Of all the powders I've tried, H4198 has performed best. It gives the best accuracy and higher velocity at lower pressures than other powders in .45-70. I would check the screws in your scope base and rings too.

I do not know how position sensitive the 4198 is but keep in mind you are putting roughly 40 grs of powder in a case that was built for 70 grs. You are igniting a small charge of powder in a large case thus the powder position before the primer is fired and bullet begins moving is an issue you will see large spreads in your deviations simply by the way the powder is setting in the case. I prefer to use pistol type powders for this reason. Powders like 2400 tend to be less position sensitive. I would also use a firm crimp and maybe even back the charge down a tad and use a mag primer to assure good ignition.

The case was originally designed for 70 grains of black powder with heavy (405 and 500 gr) lead bullets. There are a few powders in Hodgdons Pistol/Trapdoor data that fill the case and are compressed with maximum charges using a 300 gr Sierra JHP. I have not calculated the deviation of my loads, but the load I settled on has an extreme spread of 17 fps over 8 rounds. I use 50 gr H4198 with a CCI200 primer and 300 gr JHP(as always, start with minimum charges and work up). This load is halfway between the min and max charges Hodgdon lists for H4198 and gets 1890 fps from a 14" barrel with the Hunter brake. It does not fill the case completely, but has been very consistant in velocity and accuracy.

I read several years ago about low charges of 2400 causing detonation in large cases. In one incident, an SSK barrel and Leupold scope were destroyed, luckily the shooter was not injured. The person involved seemed to think that by having the muzzle pointed at the ground before the shot, the light charge settled against the bullet and remained there at the shot, resulting in detonation. He was confident that there was not a double charge. I'm not saying 2400 should not be used, just be aware of this issue. Some people recommend using a filler material over the powder, to keep the powder in place and prevent this.

Wow Hunlee now have lot to think about when shooting 45-70!!!!!Maybe if Hunlee not get new 45-70 barrel to shoot good said barrel will go back to TC factory!!!!!!Hunlee have nice shooting 375 Windchester allreedy but Hunlee may choose other caliber ifin said barrle go back to factory!!!!!!!Hunlee must try other thing first tho!!!!!!45-70 will be good for killing deer and other game animal but ifin 45-70 not shoot good like 375 Windchester why wood Hunlee want 45-70?????Accuracy is a must for Hunlee!!!!!Hunlee go to range agin soon and will allso retern agin with report about said 45-70!!!!!!Maybe hunlee go to TC web site and check other calliber that TC custom shop have to offer to Hunlee!!!!!!First hunlee will load other 45-70 brass and then go to range!!!!!!Agin Hunlee say thankyou to all!!!!

hunlee

Try a variety of powders before you throw in the towel. My barrel would not group much better than 4" with other powders I tried. I think with a little time you will have it shooting well. One other thing I would recommend is using 3-4 rings with a weaver style base. I sent my barrel to E. Arthur Brown Co for their 6 screw base. I used 4 split rings when the barrel wore a 4X Burris scope. It now wears a 2-6 Bushnell 3200 that only allows 3 rings to be used.

E. Arthur Brown Co link:
http://www.eabco.com/cssmts.html

Hi there Hunlee is back agin!!!!!Hunlee have 2-6x power Bushnell scope on there with for Leeapold alumimun verticall split ring holdin it on there......Hunlee buy said rind from Midway for good price aswell!!!!!Hunlee allso will be try other powder under bullit that Hunlee have on hand rite now!!!!!Hunlee is very hopefull butt if Hunlee is forced to gice in and throw in the towell barrel will be going back to TC FACTORY for work or replacement!!!!!!Hunlee is not certian what calliber to go with if TC replace said barrel for bein bad!!!!Hunlee will want barrel that is long like said 45-70 barrel butt ifin replacement is made with lesser calliber than muzzle brake will not be needed!!!!Hunlee wish happyness to all and may you reproduce many time!!!!!

hunlee

Here is a link to the article I mentioned in my previous post about the risks of using light loads in large cases. Like I said, I'm not against using 2400, just be aware of this issue.

http://reloadammo.com/liteload.htm

pab1,
you are correct about the incident with someone having a catastrophic failure with a SSK barrel but it was in the process of fire-forming some brass for the 475 JDJ which is based on the 45-70 case. They were using a reduced charge of 2400 without a case filler. If memory is correct the charge was around 12 to 13 grs. with a 405 cast.

Sorry about the above reply. I made it before I redirected to your supplied link. The link explains it all.

I think we were posting at the same time. I didn't see a specific charge listed in the article other than he used Lyman .45-70 data. Lyman lists minimum charges of 18.5-27 grains depending on bullet weight. Either way, this is an unusual incident.

I've been reloading the .45-70 for over 30 years in numerous firearms. Do not expect to get 1" groups at 100 yards very often. Out of seven .45-70s, the only one I have that will shoot moa on occasion is a M98 Mauser.

My Contender carbine shot very poorly with most 'normal' loads, accuracy was 4-6 moa with 300 to 400-grain bullets. I finally settled on BlueDot with the 300HPs for around 1450 fps, consistent 2-2.5 moa accuracy and low recoil. This is not a position-sensitive powder in the .45-70 and it gives low velocity spreads and safe pressures. However, BD is also not a low pressure powder, and trying for higher velocities will give excessive pressures. It is possible to get a double charge in, but you'd have to be blind not to notice. Do not use a crimp, that is just one more variable that is not needed in a single shot firearm with normal powders.

The second most accurate powder was AA2015. This gives 1750 fps in my 16" barrel and 2-3 moa. Recoil is a lot higher thought!

Be careful with any .45-70 data, there have been various throatings on both T/Cs and on data test rifles. Loads that are supposed to be at Trapdoor levels with long throats will give excess pressures in short throats.

.

The Lyman reloading book list 2400 for the super 16, that barrel was discontinued in 1997. They are 24.0 for 1346 fps to 30 grains for 1685 for a 300 grain Hornady HP #4500. The max load was also is in bold. For the Lyman book that means it was the most accurate load tested for that bullet in that barrel. Not tying to kill a dead horse… but that SHOULD be VERY save in any Contender barrel. I can scan that page and e-mail to anyone who wants it.

Carpe Diem, I discovered that with my TC barrel when I tried loading 400 gr Speer bullets. I would not recommend that bullet in any barrel without a throat.

I dug out my data from when I originally worked up my 300 gr JHP loads a couple years ago. I forgot how well that thing will do from the bench. I sure don't bring out its potential from field shooting positions!

Boy youin have good shooting barrel!!!!!Hunlee can allready tell new 45-70 barrel that came to Hunlee last week will never shoot like you barrel!!!!New barrel to Hunlee just has no sign of good accuracy like above!!!!!Hunlee will shoot agin very soon and ifin no accuracy said barrel will return to TC Factory for life time warrant work!!!!!Maybe evin new barrel willl come for Hunlee!!!!Hunlee is friend to all and allso has a fat belly!!!!

hunlee

Pab1, I think your correct we were posting around the same time. The reason I remember the specifics is I have a SSK 45-70 barrel and one in 475 JDJ also. I am friends with JD and the comment he made after the incident that stands out is the charge weight was 12 to 13 grs and he was sure that it(the charge weight) could be doubled and not exceed acceptable pressure. Again going on memory from 15 yrs ago, but this is the way I remember it.

Subscriber, it sounds like you got the unedited version. Thats good to know, since that story has steered me away from using 2400 in my .45-70. I still don't know if I'll try it, but it puts my mind to ease about its use.

Hunlee, this is the only load I have found that shoots this well in my barrel. Other powders do not come close. This was after many trips to the range trying various powders, primers, crimps, etc. Lower and slightly higher charges of H4198 don't group as well as this charge in my barrel. Keep plugging away and you'll find what your barrel likes.

Hunlee, I'm getting the same size groups as pab1, but mine are at 50yds. I'm shooting IMR 4198 with the 400 Speer. Velocity in a 12.5in SSK barrel is right at 1600fps. I tried 3031,2015,RL7,2495,and 5744 and couldn't get the velocity or group size that 4198 gave. Good Luck.

Sierra lists 29.2 grains of Alliant 2400 as max in their Super 16 barrel for a velocity of 1650 fps, pretty close to Lyman's.

Are you certain that the Super 16 in .45-70 was discontinued in 1997? I purchased my current one in 2002 new - it was listed on T/C's website in 2000 and 2002:

http://web.archive.org/web/20000229131257/www.tcarms.com/contender/contenderindex.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20020203012327/www.tcarms.com/contpistol/models.html




Edited for typos

H2OBUG Sorry ifn he tell Hunlee to shot bulit with 2400 powder but BUG never have problem with 2400. BUG do know not to load 2400 on light side that why he say shoot max in Lyman book. Bug also see photo of group shot with 4198 and he say do what he did and forget what BUG say. Bulit fly same hole way to go. Bug keep load data to self from now on he not want to see anyone hurt. Bug no want to support Hunlee wife and kids because hunlee gun blow up with BUG load. Bug have very fat belly too. Fat belly come from to may cold bevrage in afternoon. Bug know error of his ways too and never return to cross bar motel.

lol

The model I bought I am pretty sure was discontinued in 1997. The only reason I was able to get one was because of my Uncle. He has been a TC dealer for 30 years and told me they had stop making them. I also remember because that was also the year I graduated high school. Either they made a different one or there was a surplus is my best guess. But I could be wrong… wouldn’t be the first time!

Hunlee like to hear from fellow handgun Hunter member!!!!!Bug give good advice to Hunlee and Hunlee will proceed with causion when looding up 45-70 ammo as hunlee not want gun to explode!!!!Hunlee need to feed all children that has been fathered and allso the wife(285lb) is in need of food aswell!!!!Maybe down the road Hunlee will have good shooting 45-70 butt maybe no!!!!!Tomorow Hunlee will retern to range with more 45-70 ammo and fresh target!!!!!Hunlee is in hope that all bullit fly to one hole like picture above butt ifin bullit not fly true Hunlee will call to TC Factory!!!!!!TC teck help Hunlee when needed!!!!Hunlee has only spent one night in jail and has allso seen the error of his way!!!!!Jail is not good for Hunlee!!!!Freedom and friendship to all!!!Make love not war!!!!Life has ben good to Hunlee!!!!

hunlee

Hunlee shoot agin today butty just no luck!!!!!45-70 barrel is no good for Hunlee!!!!!375 Windchester of Hunlee shoot very good and will stay with hunlee for deer hunting!!!!!45-70 barrel of Hunlee not shoot good!!!!!5 and 6 and 7 inch group at 100 yard for Hunlee!!!!!375 Windchester of Hunlee shoot to one incher and sometime better!!!!!!7-30 water of Hunlee allso shoot very good for Hunlee!!!!!223 barrle of Hunlee shoot very good for Hunlee!!!!!45-70 of Hunlee must go back to TC factory!!!!!maybe tec at tc give Hunlee new barrel!!!!Hunlee not like to waist powder and bullit!!!!

hunlee

Did you try any different components on this trip? To me part of the fun and reward of reloading is spending time finding what a barrel likes or dislikes.

No Hunlee not try differant powder or bullit but Hunlee load up 45-70 with same powder and bullit!!!!Hunlee work up to over listed max load and move up one garin per time until over max was acheaved!!!!!Same result with about all load with some being evin worcer!!!!!Hunlee think new 45-70 barrel have bad throat or bad crown!!!!!Hunlee look into muzzle but crown look OK but there is muzzle brake on there from factory......Hunlee is confused agin!!!!!Hunlee should try new type powder and bullit but pound of powder and box of bullit cost extra USA dollar!!!!!Hunlee better work hard for next few day to get extra USA dollar for said powder and bullit!!!!!Ifin new powder and bullit not shoot good barrel go back to TC factoy for new calliber!!!!!!Hunlee better look over custom shop calliber for something special and 45-70 die and brass go for sale!!!!!Hunlee want long 17 incher with no brake tho!!!!!!

hunlee

Hi there Hunlee hear!!!!!Now that Hunlee have time to sleep on this over nite maybe time for Hunlee to but more bullit and powder!!!!!!This will be last effort on part of Hunlee then barrle will be go back to TC factory for warrainty!!!!!Please make suggestion to Hunlee on good calliber for Hunlee ifin TC factory say to Hunlee barrel will be replaced!!!!Hunlee have 375 Windchester,7-30 water and 223 barrel so maybee dufferent callibe wood be in order!!!!!Hunlee think calliber offering from TC custom shop wood be best like stated above!!!!!What youin think wood be good for hunlee ifin they tell Hunlee they replace barrel?????

hunlee

New brand of bullit came to Hunlee today in 458!!!!!tomorrow Hunlee will shoot agin for final test of 45-70 barrel!!!!!Ifin poor accuracy come to Hunlee poor shooting barrel go to TC factory!!!!!

hunlee

HUnlee get a hold of Remington 45-70 ammo in green box!!!!!!HUnlee decide to try factory ammo from tc factrory barrel!!!!!!!!!Hunlee never shoot factory ammo from 45-70,,,,allway hand load!!!!Hunlee hear Green Box 45-70 factory is not very strong ammp tho!!!!!!

hunlee

Hunlee have tried using a gas check cast bullet?

Hunlee have tried using a gas check cast bullet?

sorry there was an echo echo