Last year gun season about 50 yards with my 357 mag contender shooting a 180 xtp about 1600. Done more load development since then this year it'll be a 180 of some sort probably an a-frame or more xtp about 1800. But I heard this fellow crunching over the hill while I was still hunting so I poked my head over the hill got a good rest off a tree he looked at me and I put one in his Adams apple.... Bullet bounced of the neck bones and stopped under the hide on the back of his neck... Doesn't sound like good penetration but he was about 300lbs on the hoof.