I've only used the Extreme Penetrators and they were out of my 12" Encore 500 S&W..they perform like a Hardcast...nothing more, nothing less..tissue damage was less than impressive and penetration was very similar to a heavyweight hardcast...they work, but the hype is just hype, the wheel didn't get reinvented with these bullets...if you know what I mean..LOL...don't get me wrong, they're good bullets, just nothing spectacular