The 180XTP works fine. Using one of my handloads that gets the 180s a bit over 1300fps it kills deer just fine. If you handload the 165 gold dot and the 165 Sierra both work well. The 200gr XTP loaded just under max with Ram Shot True Blue will shoot ragged holes at 25 yards. The bullet seem to open up a bit quicker than the 180gr XTP. The 200gr load I am shooting chronied 1182fps. Here is a 180gr XTP removed from the offside shoulder of a doe shot at 71 yards.